Ellen Richards brings a wealth of knowledge and skills honed over a long and successful career. As a trusted partner to C-level executives, senior leaders, and global teams, she has played a key role in decision-making, strategic planning, organizational operations, change management, and talent development processes.
In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Ellen talks about the evolution of the EA role, career pivots, and resilience in job seeking.
LEADERSHIP QUOTE
If your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, then, you are an excellent leader.
– Dolly Parton
CONNECT WITH ELLEN
ABOUT ELLEN
Ellen Richards, Founder of The Lightbrary, is on a mission to empower Executive Assistants to dream bigger, explore possibilities with curiosity, and confidently create action plans to achieve their goals. With a deep respect for the role of Executive Assistants, Ellen also partners with organizations and executives to design robust career pathways that foster growth and development in this vital profession.
At the heart of Ellen’s work is a commitment to personal development, integrity, and authenticity. She believes in creating environments where everyone can learn and thrive, and her coaching approach is rooted in these values. Certified as a Professional Coach, Ellen combines her coaching expertise with hands-on experience, providing a unique perspective that resonates with both individuals and organizations.
Currently pivoting back to her Executive Assistant roots, Ellen brings a wealth of knowledge and skills honed over a long and successful career. As a trusted partner to C-level executives, senior leaders, and global teams, she has played a key role in decision-making, strategic planning, organizational operations, change management, and talent development processes.
Beyond her professional pursuits, Ellen is a dedicated knowledge butterfly who blends her love of learning with her passion for creativity. She’s a professionally trained chef and mixed media collage artist who’s pieces draw inspiration from the worlds of art, fashion, food and nature. In addition to her artwork, Ellen is currently working on completing her BA in Art History.
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THE LEADER ASSISTANT PODCAST IS PRESENTED BY EZCATER
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To explore corporate food solutions or place a catering order, visit ezcater.com.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00.320 –> 00:00:14.080
ELLEN: Hi, I’m Ellen Richards, and today’s leadership quote is, If your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, then you are an excellent leader.
00:00:14.600 –> 00:00:16.400
ELLEN: And that’s from Dolly Parton.
00:00:22.487 –> 00:00:29.867
<v SPEAKER_2>The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.
00:00:38.477 –> 00:00:41.197
JEREMY: Are you tasked with ordering food for your office?
00:00:41.997 –> 00:00:43.897
JEREMY: Let me tell you about Easy Cater.
00:00:44.597 –> 00:00:57.157
JEREMY: With over 100,000 restaurants to choose from nationwide and 24-7 customer support, Easy Cater helps assistants like you and me succeed at work and makes our lives easier.
00:00:57.737 –> 00:01:03.217
JEREMY: Visit easycater.com/leaderassistant to find out more.
00:01:04.037 –> 00:01:06.317
JEREMY: Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast.
00:01:06.497 –> 00:01:11.057
JEREMY: It’s your host Jeremy Burrows and this is episode 256.
00:01:11.517 –> 00:01:22.097
JEREMY: You can check out the show notes at leaderassistant.com/256, leaderassistant.com/256.
00:01:22.117 –> 00:01:24.857
JEREMY: Today, I’m excited to be speaking with Ellen Richards.
00:01:24.977 –> 00:01:26.117
JEREMY: Ellen, welcome to the show.
00:01:26.957 –> 00:01:28.017
ELLEN: Thank you, Jeremy.
00:01:28.037 –> 00:01:30.177
ELLEN: It’s a pleasure to be here.
00:01:30.197 –> 00:01:31.317
JEREMY: What part of the world are you in?
00:01:32.337 –> 00:01:35.077
ELLEN: I am currently seated in Brooklyn, New York.
00:01:36.977 –> 00:01:37.177
JEREMY: Nice.
00:01:37.197 –> 00:01:37.797
JEREMY: Where are you from?
00:01:37.997 –> 00:01:38.997
JEREMY: That area or?
00:01:39.197 –> 00:01:40.077
ELLEN: Brooklyn, New York.
00:01:40.217 –> 00:01:41.157
JEREMY: There you go.
00:01:41.177 –> 00:01:42.897
ELLEN: Born and raised.
00:01:43.497 –> 00:01:43.957
JEREMY: Nice.
00:01:45.037 –> 00:01:48.857
JEREMY: What’s your favorite food in that area?
00:01:49.997 –> 00:01:51.057
ELLEN: My mother’s cooking.
00:01:53.097 –> 00:01:57.097
JEREMY: What’s your favorite item from your mother’s cooking?
00:01:58.117 –> 00:02:05.037
ELLEN: Not to sound like a weasel, but anything she cooks is generally delicious.
00:02:05.057 –> 00:02:09.317
ELLEN: When I lived away from New York and I would come to New York, I’m like, what kind of food are you going to go eat?
00:02:09.357 –> 00:02:11.457
ELLEN: I was like, straight to my mom’s.
00:02:13.957 –> 00:02:15.677
ELLEN: Yes, there’s good food here.
00:02:15.977 –> 00:02:25.997
ELLEN: She does a mix of cooking that over the years has been a blend of Southern and also Cuban cuisines because my dad was Cuban.
00:02:29.277 –> 00:02:29.737
JEREMY: Good deal.
00:02:29.757 –> 00:02:32.937
JEREMY: Well, next time I’m in New York, I’ll have to come over for dinner.
00:02:33.257 –> 00:02:34.017
ELLEN: Come on by.
00:02:36.617 –> 00:02:37.077
JEREMY: Cool.
00:02:37.097 –> 00:02:39.777
JEREMY: Well, tell us a little bit about your career then.
00:02:40.897 –> 00:02:45.137
JEREMY: How did you end up landing in the executive assistant role?
00:02:46.397 –> 00:02:50.797
ELLEN: Well, after a few years, because I’ve always worked.
00:02:51.017 –> 00:02:53.297
ELLEN: I’ve probably worked since I was about 14.
00:02:53.317 –> 00:03:01.337
ELLEN: When I was trying to decide what I wanted to do with myself, and I didn’t feel like college was necessarily my route.
00:03:01.937 –> 00:03:04.197
ELLEN: I was looking at things and fell into a couple.
00:03:04.217 –> 00:03:14.897
ELLEN: But I had a cousin, or I have a cousin, she’s still alive, who was a legal secretary and she attended a secretarial school.
00:03:15.937 –> 00:03:22.357
ELLEN: And at the time, it was the biggest or most famous in the country, Catherine Gibbs.
00:03:23.857 –> 00:03:25.597
ELLEN: And she suggested that I attend.
00:03:26.057 –> 00:03:35.977
ELLEN: So after attending and doing well, I then started my career as a secretary, because at the time, the title executive assistant did not exist.
00:03:36.837 –> 00:03:47.017
ELLEN: So I started working at a small accounting firm run by a couple of brothers, and that launched me from there.
00:03:47.017 –> 00:03:53.117
ELLEN: I mean, I’ve gone from accounting to manufacturing to public relations for a good stretch.
00:03:53.137 –> 00:03:54.097
ELLEN: I was there about 20 years.
00:03:54.877 –> 00:03:58.137
ELLEN: Then into technology and just all over the place.
00:03:59.437 –> 00:03:59.797
JEREMY: Nice.
00:03:59.897 –> 00:04:07.737
JEREMY: What’s maybe something that as you got into the role, and we’ll talk a little bit about the evolution of the role.
00:04:08.797 –> 00:04:12.697
JEREMY: But what’s something as you got into it that really was like, oh, this is for me.
00:04:12.717 –> 00:04:13.297
JEREMY: This is fun.
00:04:13.317 –> 00:04:13.797
JEREMY: I like this.
00:04:14.557 –> 00:04:15.017
ELLEN: Yeah.
00:04:15.037 –> 00:04:23.857
ELLEN: What did it for me was that I was always allowed to take on as much as I was capable of doing.
00:04:23.877 –> 00:04:26.237
ELLEN: It was always something to be done.
00:04:26.257 –> 00:04:36.917
ELLEN: Now, when I started my career, I started out in a place that yes, it was entry level, but it didn’t feel like entry level.
00:04:36.937 –> 00:04:40.157
ELLEN: I got dumped right into the pool.
00:04:40.577 –> 00:04:41.357
ELLEN: Funny story.
00:04:41.997 –> 00:04:53.857
ELLEN: When I started that job with the accountants, they had a new piece of software that I had briefly learned in secretarial school called Word.
00:04:56.917 –> 00:04:59.397
ELLEN: I saw it for like a few minutes.
00:04:59.437 –> 00:05:00.137
JEREMY: I’ve heard of it.
00:05:00.617 –> 00:05:01.337
ELLEN: Have you heard of it?
00:05:01.357 –> 00:05:01.817
ELLEN: I don’t know.
00:05:01.977 –> 00:05:04.177
ELLEN: It might be something people know about.
00:05:04.757 –> 00:05:10.637
ELLEN: But the one that was primarily the software we learned was WordPerfect, which you don’t see anymore.
00:05:10.857 –> 00:05:11.557
JEREMY: I remember it.
00:05:11.577 –> 00:05:14.917
ELLEN: So I got confused, Word, WordPerfect.
00:05:14.937 –> 00:05:16.457
ELLEN: They were like, do you know how to use this thing?
00:05:16.537 –> 00:05:17.517
JEREMY: Oh yeah, heck yeah.
00:05:18.117 –> 00:05:24.617
ELLEN: I got there and it was Word and I freaked out in my mind, but they never knew it because guess what I did?
00:05:25.137 –> 00:05:31.357
ELLEN: I went to Barnes and Noble, I found a quick start manual and I figured out how to use Word.
00:05:31.377 –> 00:05:44.897
ELLEN: So all of that to say that this is the kind of position that has allowed me to learn many, many things and to do many, many things that I don’t know that I would have outside of it.
00:05:46.697 –> 00:05:47.697
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:05:48.437 –> 00:05:49.117
JEREMY: Great story.
00:05:49.137 –> 00:05:49.697
JEREMY: Thanks for sharing.
00:05:49.717 –> 00:05:51.337
JEREMY: I remember Word Perfect back in the day.
00:05:53.117 –> 00:06:02.737
JEREMY: I remember there was Word started getting to be where everybody was using it, but then I worked with someone that was like, oh no, I still use Word Perfect and I was just like, what in the world?
00:06:02.757 –> 00:06:02.977
ELLEN: Yeah.
00:06:03.097 –> 00:06:15.117
ELLEN: I got so good at using Word Perfect that I was doing all kinds of things, but then by the time I ran into Word and I was the office expert.
00:06:18.157 –> 00:06:27.397
JEREMY: Well, and if anybody listening has no idea what Word Perfect is, they can just have fun with their OneDrive and their Google Docs, right?
00:06:27.837 –> 00:06:29.717
ELLEN: They can Google it and see if they can find it.
00:06:31.577 –> 00:06:31.957
<v SPEAKER_2>Cool.
00:06:31.977 –> 00:06:36.577
JEREMY: Well, what’s been maybe one of the biggest challenges throughout your career as an assistant?
00:06:38.097 –> 00:07:01.137
ELLEN: Well, the biggest barrier or challenge, I would say, has not been in my lack of enthusiasm for something, but it’s others not necessarily seeing what I see or allowing me the opportunity to do what I want to do or see someone in this role as, oh, that’s just the assistant.
00:07:01.157 –> 00:07:03.237
ELLEN: That’s been the most challenging thing.
00:07:03.257 –> 00:07:15.297
ELLEN: But I have to say over the years, it has gotten better as people, more and more people become educated about what people who are engaged in direct executive support do.
00:07:17.837 –> 00:07:31.917
ELLEN: And sometimes the challenge is not just attitudes, but resources as to, you know, there’s going to be a limit to what you can do if you’re not properly resourced, so that you have to be kind of scrappy.
00:07:34.377 –> 00:07:36.017
ELLEN: But that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
00:07:36.537 –> 00:07:36.857
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:07:38.477 –> 00:07:38.777
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:07:39.417 –> 00:07:46.077
JEREMY: So, you know, we talked about the, you said you mentioned secretary when you started.
00:07:46.997 –> 00:07:53.217
JEREMY: So, and I was looking at your LinkedIn, you know, you had the executive assistant title, you had executive business partner title.
00:07:53.237 –> 00:07:59.177
JEREMY: So tell us a little bit about the evolution of the role that you’ve seen over the years and even even just simply the titles.
00:08:00.717 –> 00:08:08.217
ELLEN: When I first started out, like I mentioned, we were secretaries and I graduated from Catherine Gibbs as an executive secretary.
00:08:09.077 –> 00:08:19.957
ELLEN: And there, the title came along, I would say, very at the beginning of my career.
00:08:20.137 –> 00:08:25.657
ELLEN: And I read a book by Melba Duncan, who I’m sure you’re familiar with.
00:08:27.257 –> 00:08:33.757
ELLEN: And that changed my whole perspective on what administrative support could be.
00:08:35.357 –> 00:08:45.937
ELLEN: And as I moved through my career and the title secretary dropped off, I don’t remember exactly when it happened, but it just disappeared one day.
00:08:47.697 –> 00:08:55.897
ELLEN: And I was an account coordinator at probably some point at the beginning of my career.
00:08:56.777 –> 00:09:03.777
ELLEN: Then I was an administrative assistant that morphed into executive assistant.
00:09:05.417 –> 00:09:06.937
ELLEN: I was an administrative manager.
00:09:06.957 –> 00:09:14.137
ELLEN: And then I moved into an executive business partner, which is the first time I had heard that phrase when I moved into the tech sector.
00:09:16.417 –> 00:09:23.797
ELLEN: And yeah, so that title proliferates pretty much in that sector, but not as much as you might think.
00:09:24.557 –> 00:09:35.617
ELLEN: But that was accompanies, I think, gaining a better understanding of the opportunities and competencies in this role.
00:09:36.857 –> 00:09:40.257
ELLEN: And so I’ve moved in and out of those titles.
00:09:42.817 –> 00:09:43.077
ELLEN: Yeah.
00:09:43.097 –> 00:09:55.037
ELLEN: So to me, it’s nice to see the reflection and to see the changes in all these years coming from learning how to type on a manual typewriter to what we have today.
00:09:55.337 –> 00:09:55.717
JEREMY: Right.
00:09:56.457 –> 00:10:06.877
JEREMY: Do you think that the, you mentioned earlier, the kind of attitude of you’re just an assistant.
00:10:07.597 –> 00:10:12.777
JEREMY: Do you think the title changes over the years changed any of that?
00:10:12.997 –> 00:10:19.617
JEREMY: Or was it more about the executive or the colleague versus the title?
00:10:20.697 –> 00:10:28.797
ELLEN: I think it had less to do with the title and more to do with who’s in the title and who is surrounding the title.
00:10:28.817 –> 00:10:31.577
ELLEN: Like who are you supporting and what is their understanding?
00:10:32.097 –> 00:10:35.377
ELLEN: How have you been able to educate them on what the role is?
00:10:37.157 –> 00:10:39.537
ELLEN: Then at that level, it’s each one teach one.
00:10:39.557 –> 00:10:51.317
ELLEN: If you get your executive strength on what it is that you do and they see what you do, then they go forward to their colleagues in a perfect world.
00:10:51.337 –> 00:10:52.017
ELLEN: This is how it works.
00:10:52.157 –> 00:10:53.137
ELLEN: Sometimes it doesn’t.
00:10:53.477 –> 00:10:59.697
ELLEN: They go forward to their colleagues and they say, hey, no, listen, Ellen’s not just anything.
00:10:59.857 –> 00:11:05.817
ELLEN: She’s the one that’s saving me on a daily basis from all kinds of things.
00:11:05.837 –> 00:11:23.357
ELLEN: So it ebbs and flows and I see a lot of changes, but I see a lot of steps backwards and that can be a little disheartening when you’ve been in the game as long as I have.
00:11:23.377 –> 00:11:27.237
JEREMY: What’s an example of something that you’ve seen that you feel like to step backward?
00:11:27.657 –> 00:11:29.857
ELLEN: Well, I’ve seen a lot of that lately.
00:11:30.197 –> 00:11:39.197
ELLEN: Like I would say in the last year or so, especially when this market started to crater and it really started to get desperate out there.
00:11:40.237 –> 00:11:59.657
ELLEN: I have seen some going backward in the sense of what the expectations employers and perhaps these executives that are behind these roles have as to what an executive assistant or executive business partner or someone with an admin title does.
00:12:00.457 –> 00:12:13.737
ELLEN: But it doesn’t, I feel still like here’s the hopeful part in me, that still feels that there are enough people who are getting it or got it, due to all the advocacy that’s being done out there.
00:12:14.097 –> 00:12:24.717
ELLEN: What I do, what definitely what you do, and what your contemporaries are doing out there in the world to get the message out, it’s not just anything.
00:12:25.717 –> 00:12:29.237
ELLEN: It is a career, it is a profession, we are your colleagues.
00:12:31.737 –> 00:12:32.137
JEREMY: Well said.
00:12:32.557 –> 00:12:39.937
JEREMY: So then speaking of career, I always ask my guests beforehand what topics they want to talk about.
00:12:39.957 –> 00:12:43.977
JEREMY: One of them is that you submitted was career pivots.
00:12:44.577 –> 00:12:48.177
JEREMY: So let’s talk about career pivots and why did you select that?
00:12:48.957 –> 00:12:53.717
JEREMY: It looks like you may have had a career pivot yourself.
00:13:01.457 –> 00:13:04.037
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00:13:04.057 –> 00:13:12.657
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00:13:25.477 –> 00:13:27.917
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00:13:37.677 –> 00:13:42.377
ELLEN: I’ve selected pivots because that’s really what’s alive and well in my world right now.
00:13:45.577 –> 00:13:57.437
ELLEN: In 2021, I came out of a position and after a few things went on that I had to make a decision.
00:13:57.457 –> 00:13:58.517
ELLEN: I was at a crossroads.
00:13:58.537 –> 00:13:59.637
ELLEN: Well, what do I want to do?
00:13:59.657 –> 00:14:03.137
ELLEN: Do I want to get back into executive support or want to do something else?
00:14:03.677 –> 00:14:20.497
ELLEN: I always had in my mind and through my career, I’ve always tried to be the person who coaches or advocates or was always trying to make my colleagues better and myself better, because we’re only as strong as our weakest link.
00:14:20.517 –> 00:14:25.797
ELLEN: So if somebody is falling down on the team, it’s not for me to go on the admin team I’m talking about.
00:14:25.817 –> 00:14:28.737
ELLEN: It’s not for me to say, oh, well, they’ll figure it out.
00:14:29.417 –> 00:14:35.237
ELLEN: No, I have to help you because something is going on and if we rise to the level, what do they say?
00:14:35.257 –> 00:14:39.177
ELLEN: Boats all rise to the same water level or something like that.
00:14:39.197 –> 00:14:40.297
JEREMY: Yeah, the wave or whatever.
00:14:41.097 –> 00:14:41.497
ELLEN: I’m getting.
00:14:41.997 –> 00:14:44.177
JEREMY: Rising tide lifts all boats, something like that.
00:14:44.197 –> 00:14:44.737
ELLEN: Yeah, there you go.
00:14:44.817 –> 00:14:45.297
ELLEN: Thank you.
00:14:46.137 –> 00:15:10.797
ELLEN: But the pivot came with me deciding that I would go to coaching school because what I saw on executive teams was that every executive that I supported who was a high performer and making their way in their particular industry or in their company had an executive coach.
00:15:11.517 –> 00:15:27.457
ELLEN: Now, here we are working with these leaders, senior leaders, C-suite folks, but we don’t receive any coaching that the company is willing to pay for or see anything about our growth and development.
00:15:27.517 –> 00:15:34.117
ELLEN: And most companies that I had seen up until that point, the growth and development aspect was a little limited.
00:15:34.137 –> 00:15:37.057
ELLEN: It was like, you want to learn how to do an Excel spreadsheet?
00:15:37.077 –> 00:15:47.317
ELLEN: We’ve got a course for you, but not taking into account the fact that if I didn’t already know how to use Excel, like at an advanced level, I probably wouldn’t be there.
00:15:48.097 –> 00:16:02.157
ELLEN: So that pivot took me to coaching school, like I said, and afterwards I came out and I decided that I would try to put into action all the things that I had been thinking about all these years.
00:16:02.777 –> 00:16:12.037
ELLEN: I’ve worked with some fantastic executive assistants and executive business partners and admin teams, and things are going pretty great.
00:16:12.497 –> 00:16:15.997
ELLEN: But then it is like the needle on the record.
00:16:16.017 –> 00:16:25.517
ELLEN: And the business, as far as the coaching went, became more of a trickle than a faucet.
00:16:25.917 –> 00:16:28.237
ELLEN: I mean, like a full on turn the taps on.
00:16:29.317 –> 00:16:38.937
ELLEN: And I had to look at this and say, while I do love this and while I still think this is valuable, I need to put a pin in it and get myself back into the workforce.
00:16:39.477 –> 00:16:42.877
ELLEN: So that was the second pivot on the pivot, you know?
00:16:43.397 –> 00:16:53.497
ELLEN: And so with that pivot came a whole mindset shift because it’s like, well, I made this pivot.
00:16:54.037 –> 00:16:56.337
ELLEN: I made this big deal about I’m doing this thing.
00:16:56.357 –> 00:16:59.437
ELLEN: And now here I am back again at the old thing.
00:16:59.917 –> 00:17:07.157
ELLEN: So it was getting my mind wrapped around the fact that there’s no shame in making a pivot.
00:17:07.397 –> 00:17:14.677
ELLEN: There’s no shame in coming back to point A even if you’ve went to point B, C, D, and Q and came back.
00:17:15.977 –> 00:17:21.077
ELLEN: And it is a career that has sustained me for over 30 years, one that I love.
00:17:21.437 –> 00:17:23.277
ELLEN: So why wouldn’t I come back to that?
00:17:23.297 –> 00:17:27.837
JEREMY: Yeah, interesting.
00:17:28.217 –> 00:17:31.137
JEREMY: So then what, where are you at now then?
00:17:31.157 –> 00:17:33.497
JEREMY: What’s your current current pivot?
00:17:34.897 –> 00:17:43.897
ELLEN: Well, I’m in the market looking for, you know, the next executive partnership that I can get into.
00:17:44.737 –> 00:17:46.777
ELLEN: And I’m being very deliberate.
00:17:46.897 –> 00:18:03.177
ELLEN: And thankfully, I have the privilege to take this time and figure out how and what I want to do next, because it is important to me to, you know, it is a relationship.
00:18:04.417 –> 00:18:09.697
ELLEN: And so it’s important for me to know who I’m getting in this relationship with.
00:18:10.517 –> 00:18:12.597
ELLEN: Why am I getting into this relationship?
00:18:13.397 –> 00:18:15.237
ELLEN: Is this something I even want to do?
00:18:16.517 –> 00:18:17.717
ELLEN: Because I have a certain amount.
00:18:17.737 –> 00:18:24.137
ELLEN: I have a certain criteria that I’m like, definitely looking for as far as my next adventure.
00:18:24.257 –> 00:18:33.897
ELLEN: And I guess first and foremost, it has to be something that I feel I will be learning, because that’s very important to me, is to be learning in whatever it is that I do.
00:18:33.917 –> 00:18:54.477
ELLEN: And solving problems that are, you know, not problems like opportunities to design solutions to interesting areas of, you know, maybe a point of tension for somebody or a pain point for someone.
00:18:55.337 –> 00:19:00.257
ELLEN: And so I’m looking at like companies or people that I even that I know and what they’re doing.
00:19:00.277 –> 00:19:02.897
ELLEN: And I’m like, what is that about?
00:19:02.917 –> 00:19:04.517
ELLEN: Is that something I’m interested in?
00:19:04.857 –> 00:19:05.697
ELLEN: So that’s where I’m at.
00:19:05.717 –> 00:19:09.037
ELLEN: I’m still kind of in the phase of job hunting.
00:19:10.957 –> 00:19:20.517
JEREMY: So what, you know, that’s a great transition to kind of the last topic I wanted to cover that you brought up was resilience in job seeking.
00:19:22.437 –> 00:19:29.537
JEREMY: How, what have you done to, you know, stick with it and stay positive?
00:19:29.557 –> 00:19:39.377
JEREMY: I mean, it can be very, very disheartening, downright, depressing sometimes, you know, like feels like all hope is lost.
00:19:39.397 –> 00:19:43.877
JEREMY: You have interviews, you don’t have interviews, then you get a bunch of interviews and then nobody calls you back.
00:19:43.877 –> 00:19:48.417
JEREMY: And it’s just, you know, what have you done to stay resilient?
00:19:48.977 –> 00:19:51.257
ELLEN: Yeah, this market is harrowing.
00:19:51.957 –> 00:19:57.817
ELLEN: And in the 30 some odd years that I’ve been doing this, I have never seen a market like this before.
00:19:59.597 –> 00:20:01.157
ELLEN: And it is easy to lose hope.
00:20:01.177 –> 00:20:05.297
ELLEN: And there are some days where I feel like, why am I doing this?
00:20:07.097 –> 00:20:12.717
ELLEN: But the bottom line is, you know, there’s a purpose and there’s a reason why, because, you know, I need to get back in it.
00:20:12.777 –> 00:20:19.817
ELLEN: But in the face of all those things, what I have to do at times is take breaks from it.
00:20:20.757 –> 00:20:24.057
ELLEN: Because I don’t know about anyone else out there who’s job seeking.
00:20:24.217 –> 00:20:28.457
ELLEN: You’ve probably changed your resume about 500 times like I have.
00:20:29.037 –> 00:20:36.377
ELLEN: Writing custom cover letters to everything that you do, shaking the trees of your network and all of that.
00:20:37.397 –> 00:20:44.417
ELLEN: But if you think about this job hunting like a job, you have to build in breaks for yourself.
00:20:45.497 –> 00:20:47.897
ELLEN: If you were on a job, wouldn’t you take a vacation?
00:20:49.297 –> 00:20:51.957
ELLEN: You can still do that here in different ways.
00:20:52.477 –> 00:20:56.337
ELLEN: I’m not saying you need to go and, you know, go lay out on the Riviera.
00:20:56.757 –> 00:20:59.017
ELLEN: I mean, that’s great if you can afford to do that.
00:20:59.977 –> 00:21:24.077
ELLEN: But I mean, something simple like I had to cut down my time on LinkedIn to certain times during the day because I found myself constantly there and on other job boards searching, searching, searching, scrolling, scrolling, searching, searching, reading, all the conflicting advice out there about what job seekers should be doing at this point.
00:21:24.617 –> 00:21:26.297
ELLEN: You could drive yourself crazy.
00:21:26.337 –> 00:21:36.577
ELLEN: So the building in breaks, taking time out to do things that you find joyful, like whether that’s taking a walk.
00:21:36.777 –> 00:21:38.517
ELLEN: I mean, I do that sometimes.
00:21:38.817 –> 00:21:55.657
ELLEN: Whether that is, you know, reading a book that has nothing to do with business or making sure that you plan out your day to some degree, because whether we like it or not, when you have a job, that gives you structure.
00:21:56.677 –> 00:22:06.657
ELLEN: And so when there’s no job present or, you know, you haven’t built out a way to spend your time, it can feel you can feel rudderless and time can feel endless.
00:22:06.677 –> 00:22:13.077
ELLEN: And then that’s easy to slip into all sorts of mindsets that are not healthy.
00:22:13.077 –> 00:22:19.297
ELLEN: Now, I’m a person who lives with anxiety and depression.
00:22:19.557 –> 00:22:28.957
ELLEN: And if I don’t find ways for myself to be engaged and not hyper focusing on something, then I’m going to be in trouble.
00:22:29.297 –> 00:22:30.937
ELLEN: So I have creative outlets.
00:22:31.477 –> 00:22:33.937
ELLEN: That’s another way that I keep myself resilient.
00:22:33.937 –> 00:22:46.177
ELLEN: I spend time with my friends, whether it’s on the phone, on Zoom or in person, you know, when it’s possible, go ahead and spend time with a three year old and that’ll change your life.
00:22:50.237 –> 00:23:06.477
ELLEN: And so things like that and not devoting all of my waking hours to thinking about worrying about the fact that, you know, I haven’t succeeded in securing a position for myself.
00:23:08.397 –> 00:23:09.897
JEREMY: That’s super helpful.
00:23:09.917 –> 00:23:12.157
JEREMY: Thank you for sharing and being honest there.
00:23:13.197 –> 00:23:18.717
JEREMY: You know, you mentioned in your bio that you are a professionally trained chef.
00:23:19.537 –> 00:23:24.677
JEREMY: And so I wondered if that was one of the outlets that you go to as well.
00:23:25.297 –> 00:23:37.217
ELLEN: I have been getting more into cooking as far as like using that as a meditative in a way to be distracting.
00:23:39.557 –> 00:23:46.117
ELLEN: And, you know, my family has benefited from that.
00:23:46.657 –> 00:23:47.537
ELLEN: I don’t cook.
00:23:48.277 –> 00:23:54.837
ELLEN: You know, it’s not like a seven course meal every day, but it’s a way to get outside of my head.
00:23:54.857 –> 00:24:00.297
ELLEN: And if I can get outside of my head, whatever that activity is, it’s good for me.
00:24:01.577 –> 00:24:04.617
ELLEN: Another one that has gotten me outside of my head is I went back to school.
00:24:06.437 –> 00:24:13.377
ELLEN: And yeah, I’m currently pursuing my BA in art history because it’s a subject that I love.
00:24:18.757 –> 00:24:20.497
ELLEN: If I could just mention one more thing before you go.
00:24:20.517 –> 00:24:21.497
ELLEN: Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:24:21.937 –> 00:24:28.977
ELLEN: It’s the biggest thing above all is, and this may sound corny, it’s a practice of gratitude.
00:24:30.617 –> 00:24:42.857
ELLEN: I have been giving more and more of my time to, like, if I’m having a really bad day where I’m like, this, everything is terrible.
00:24:42.877 –> 00:24:44.097
ELLEN: I’m never getting anywhere.
00:24:44.117 –> 00:24:44.897
ELLEN: I’m a failure.
00:24:45.717 –> 00:24:46.317
ELLEN: Whatever.
00:24:46.337 –> 00:24:52.337
ELLEN: I don’t, I stop and I say to myself, but what is going right?
00:24:53.277 –> 00:24:54.557
ELLEN: What is going well?
00:24:55.517 –> 00:24:56.097
ELLEN: What’s that?
00:24:56.117 –> 00:24:59.317
ELLEN: What one thing happened today that I liked?
00:25:03.017 –> 00:25:04.257
ELLEN: Doesn’t have to be extensive.
00:25:04.537 –> 00:25:06.317
ELLEN: It can be something that simple.
00:25:07.317 –> 00:25:10.257
ELLEN: Noticing, oh, this is how I’m thinking.
00:25:10.897 –> 00:25:12.097
ELLEN: But what’s behind that?
00:25:12.097 –> 00:25:15.737
ELLEN: Is any of these things that my brain is cranking out actually true?
00:25:15.757 –> 00:25:17.417
JEREMY: That’s great.
00:25:17.777 –> 00:25:30.517
JEREMY: Yeah, the gratitude thing, one of my favorite questions to ask, and to ask myself and to ask others is, what’s one thing you’re thankful for or what are you grateful for?
00:25:31.357 –> 00:25:40.437
JEREMY: And it’s just a simple question, good icebreaker, but it really doesn’t have to get too deep, but it really does help with perspective.
00:25:41.137 –> 00:25:49.697
JEREMY: And remind us that, oh, you know what, even if this over here is not going so great right now, there’s still this over here that I’m grateful for.
00:25:50.377 –> 00:25:50.677
JEREMY: Right.
00:25:50.697 –> 00:25:57.337
ELLEN: It doesn’t mean all abandon, all hope at this point, just, you know, everything’s terrible.
00:25:58.137 –> 00:26:04.037
ELLEN: Because even in the midst of the most terrible thing you’ve ever gone through, everything’s still not bad.
00:26:04.777 –> 00:26:05.997
ELLEN: Something was working.
00:26:07.337 –> 00:26:13.657
ELLEN: And you have survived up until this point, a hundred percent of the things that have tried to take you down.
00:26:16.557 –> 00:26:18.457
ELLEN: So put that in your basket.
00:26:20.857 –> 00:26:21.277
JEREMY: Awesome.
00:26:21.297 –> 00:26:21.597
<v SPEAKER_2>Love it.
00:26:21.617 –> 00:26:24.577
JEREMY: Well, Ellen, thank you so much for chatting with us today.
00:26:24.597 –> 00:26:27.837
JEREMY: It’s been great encouragement to chat with you.
00:26:27.837 –> 00:26:34.837
JEREMY: And is there any where that you would point people to if they want to reach out and say hi and connect?
00:26:35.477 –> 00:26:35.897
ELLEN: Sure.
00:26:36.377 –> 00:26:39.557
ELLEN: LinkedIn is a good spot to grab me at.
00:26:40.857 –> 00:26:45.377
ELLEN: And also, if you want to go take a look at the library, that’s the library.com.
00:26:45.397 –> 00:26:49.617
ELLEN: That’s my coaching and consulting business website.
00:26:50.577 –> 00:27:05.517
ELLEN: And I want to thank you, Jeremy, for being generous enough to open up your platform and ask us to move out of our comfort zones and do something that’s different.
00:27:06.497 –> 00:27:11.797
ELLEN: And I think that’s going to be definitely the theme for 2024.
00:27:12.317 –> 00:27:13.057
ELLEN: So thank you.
00:27:14.837 –> 00:27:15.497
JEREMY: You’re welcome.
00:27:15.537 –> 00:27:16.597
JEREMY: Thank you so much, Ellen.
00:27:16.617 –> 00:27:18.657
JEREMY: And best of luck to you.
00:27:18.837 –> 00:27:23.277
JEREMY: And I hope to share some good food in Brooklyn, New York with you someday.
00:27:23.857 –> 00:27:24.597
ELLEN: Absolutely.
00:27:24.637 –> 00:27:25.257
ELLEN: Absolutely.
00:27:25.277 –> 00:27:25.817
ELLEN: Come on down.
00:27:37.097 –> 00:27:39.452
ELLEN: Please review on Apple Podcasts.
00:27:46.048 –> 00:27:47.788
ELLEN: goburrows.com.
