Joe Rare The Leader Assistant Podcast

Joe Rare focuses on helping small-to-medium sized businesses around the world, while working from the comfort of his home in Montana and enjoying Big Sky Country with his family.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Joe talks about recruiting, training, and managing virtual assistants, email management, tips for business process standardization, and the biggest mistake he’s ever made in working with an assistant.


Allow your team to fail fast and successes will come even faster.

Joe Rare - Leader Assistant Podcast Jeremy Burrows

Joe Rare is an “underground” serial entrepreneur, investor, outsourcing expert, father and husband. He currently owns four digital companies, five wedding venues, and real estate investment properties.

Joe’s journey began with a door-to-door product sales business, which grew from a team of two to 40 employees in under two years. He later sold the company after 27 months.

His passion for sales never dimmed, but he discovered what his life’s work would be – building digital businesses. The road was definitely made of dirt with a lot of potholes. There were failed businesses in the early days, but he took the failures and learned to create wins. He has since built multiple 7+ figure companies and built a strong and growing real estate portfolio.

Joe focuses on helping small- to medium-sized businesses around the world, while working from the comfort of his home in Montana and enjoying Big Sky Country with his family.

All of his companies are fully being run by his virtual assistants.

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Joe Rare 0:00
My name is Joe Rare and for leadership I believe that if you fail fast successes will come even faster

Podcast Intro 0:12
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident game changing leader assistants

Jeremy Burrows 0:27
are you tasked with ordering food for your office? Let me tell you about ezCater with over 100,000 restaurants to choose from nationwide and 24/7 customer support. EzCater helps assistants like you and me succeed at work and makes our lives easier. Visit to find out more. Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host Jeremy Burrows and it’s episode 240 You can check out the show notes for this episode at as my kids slammed the front door in the background not sure if you heard that, but it’s always fun around the Burrows’ complex. But today I’m excited to be speaking with another family man, Joe Rare. Joe focuses on helping small to medium sized businesses around the world while working from the comfort of his home in Montana. Is that right Joe?

Joe Rare 1:29
Yes, it is.

Jeremy Burrows 1:31
What? Uh, what part of Montana?

Joe Rare 1:33
So we’re just south of Bozeman.

Jeremy Burrows 1:35
Okay, Bozeman I love Bozeman. But I’ve only been there once, but it was beautiful. Loved.

Joe Rare 1:40
Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. It’s a cool town.

Jeremy Burrows 1:42
So okay, so you got to tell me the first first kind of question is, where does your last name Rare come from? Are you really that rare?

Joe Rare 1:54
Oh, maybe? I think, uh, you know, it’s, it’s it’s like how my family, I guess chopped it up when they came to the US. I don’t know how many generations ago. And it just kept getting shortened and shortened and it was Slovakian and something else. And so yeah, it was some long, unpronounceable thing, and then it they just chopped it and chopped it as a name

Jeremy Burrows 2:15
made it simpler and simpler. Yeah. Nice. Well, actually, that’s probably a good answer, because it’s relevant to what we’re going to talk about when it comes to business processes, and simplifying, and then outsourcing to virtual assistants. But tell us a little bit about your career journey. And, and where you’re at currently.

Joe Rare 2:35
Oh, it’s been, it’s been a wild journey. For sure. Entrepreneurship is like that. I’ve had, you know, quite a few different companies over the years, had a lot of failures, which is kind of where my kind of my method around failing fast comes in. And I think that the faster you can go make mistakes and figure things out, the quicker that you can get to the next step or the next opportunity. And so I take that same approach, and I pass that down to our team, and everybody in our company has that, you know, mentality. So I had multiple I’ve had, you know, like I said, multiple companies, where we are today, we, you know, I built level nine virtual, which is my VA company, basically, from the idea of one of my team members said, hey, you know, we keep telling people how and where to go hire virtual assistants, you know, that you could just do that, and provide the service, and you’d probably make money. And I, you know, my whole thought was, you know, I don’t want to operate the company. So if we could figure out a way to have you guys operate it, then let’s do it. And we created this model, that we’ve launched six companies using this model, where I can get involved in the beginning, you know, I’m more of a visionary. And we put integrators in place, we put people in place to actually run and operate the companies. And so my goal is to get into a business, start a business, launch something and then have a team, scale it and run it. And so I reverse engineer, the way that I think most people get into a business is they do it with the intent, I want to build something or I want to be a part of something with the intent that I’m gonna have freedom, some level of freedom, whether I want to do the thing my way I want to, you know, I want to have free time I want to have, you know, financial resources, whatever freedom means to you. Most people are starting businesses for those reasons. So the way that I look at it is go, okay, I’d like to start a business that fits around my lifestyle. So I don’t mind working for a period of time, but then I have to be able to get myself back out of it. And so, you know, and then it needs to be run by my team. Okay. Yeah. Well, that’s where we are today.

Jeremy Burrows 4:35
What’s the what’s kind of a few of those? You said six of them? Were a few of those.

Joe Rare 4:39
Yes, business market. Yeah, I have a marketing agency in the wedding industry, and we provide a marketing system for wedding venues. I’m a partner in five wedding venues. So that’s another one, level nine virtual, and then this company we launched about 90 days ago. It’s called visitor match and that is identity resolute Russian anonymous website visitors converted into user profiles. So when people have a website and their business is dependent on a website, you can actually we can actually match the anonymous people that hit your website, and we can give you their contact information so that you can reach out and create sales opportunities. And so that business has kind of exploded over the past 90 days. Right, right.

Jeremy Burrows 5:21
Wow. So what’s the, you know, seeing how this is a podcast for executive assistants? Yeah. And executives who have assistants give us kind of a summary of Level Nine virtual and then what the? Is it a? Is it a virtual assistant firm were like, hey, I need somebody to do my podcast, you know, show notes. So I can hire somebody from you. Is it like a pair people with different assistants, depending on the skills or do you pair with one assistant like to also work so

Joe Rare 5:56
we have clients who have 20 and 30, assistants, we have, you know, who handle marketing and general admin, admin and prospecting and you know, outbound, you know, outreach, technical things, website development, you know, a lot of a lot of different support roles, whether it be in the marketing realm, or whether it be something, you know, more administrative, we do it all. And we have, you know, you can get dedicated virtual assistants that do just that. Or if you need something that’s more of a project based focus, we have project based services, where you can just by a block of hours, get a whole bunch of things off your plate, and say, I need to, I have all this graphic design work that I want to get done. And I can assign it to somebody who’s done 1000 projects, and get it done. I need somebody to help me update my website, you can assign just that project, get it done, and only pay for, you know, a block of hours. So we have project based work we have dedicated, I haven’t executive assistant, you know, I have assistants that do podcast outreach, so they get me interviewed on podcast, that’s how I ended up with you. Right, so my team reaches out and they find podcasts that might make a lot of sense for me to be interviewed on and help our brand grow, but also provide hopefully some insight to somebody, maybe somebody will ask me the right question, and they’ll get that right answer that really, really helps one person. So you know, we really have a plethora of services, the executive side of things is pretty cool, because I haven’t checked my own email first, in probably three years. So I’m somebody who literally scours my email makes sure that you know, what I need to see versus what I don’t need to see. And so it makes my life a lot easier. I have a lot more freedom, I have a lot more free time, because I have somebody else actually running the show. And so there’s a quick little tips.

Jeremy Burrows 7:47
Yeah. So how does the, you know, we talked about business process standardization? What’s maybe another to go a little deeper and double click on the email management? How have you standardize that process so that you can help other you know, executives do the same with their assistant or so that you can train the assistants that you hire, how to do that. And then even as the assistants listening to the show, right now, they’re thinking, all right, well, you know, I manage my executives inbox, I need some tips.

Joe Rare 8:24
Yeah, one of the first things to do for if you’re the business owner trying to get hire an assistant or whatever, one of the first things to do is, is it’s challenging to give up your inbox. A lot of people don’t like doing it. And they feel very kind of confused on whether it’s like something that you should hand off, or it should be something personal. The way that we kind of structure it is, we obviously we do very similarly to how we have our Slack account setup. And so we you know, if it’s client type, you know, emails, they’ll go into one inbox, we have anything that’s urgent, emergency type stuff goes into another folder. Anything that’s just staff related, if it’s HR related, if it’s finance related, so every division of the company, if there’s emails that are involved from any division, anywhere, they all have their own inbox, if it’s client facing stuff, or if it’s fulfillment stuff, if it’s, you know, could be tech, you know, subscriptions and things that we have, those are all going into one. And the goal is is number one organization, that’s the easiest, that I feel like that’s the easiest part of it, because you can just go through and figure out some basic categories that make sense. And then you set up your rules and everything else. And then all we have our assistants do is go in and review fires. Fires are really the only thing that’s urgent. There’s fires and opportunities. Unfortunately, opportunities don’t hit your inbox every single day. Most people spend all of their time focused on fires, and they end up in their inbox and there’s just a plethora of stuff in there. And most of it is just attraction, it’s actually not anything necessary. And so what we do is, is over time, our VAs will actually learn how like, What would our typical response be, if we got email a. And so then we go, okay, here, just send them this. And actually, the summary of all of that gets sent to me in Slack. So I actually don’t check the email, I actually checked slack. And it’s, Hey, here’s the five, here’s the five pressing things. I’m not really sure how to address these. And so Oh, hey, say this back, say this back, say this back, like you got it, it happened to you earlier. Right? you emailed and said, Hey, we needed to kind of, you know, move, move the appointment, hey, tell him that, you know, send it back, I can’t do it. Right, because she didn’t know what I had going on. And so little things like that, it was super fast, it all happen in Slack, I could do it on the fly, I don’t have to log into my email, I don’t have to sit and and you know, sift through everything that’s in there, it’s super quick, and my team can can actually do it for me. And so those are just a couple quick things with the organization to the inbox. But then the most important thing is just to start to learn how, how the business owner or the you know, whoever it is you’re working with, how they would actually respond to things? Like what’s their? What’s their phrasing? And how do they communicate? What words do they typically use. I’m a super simple, like, kind of laid back person, I’m not very professional, at all. So my communication isn’t professional. And so everybody knows, they can just use like short messages to send back because that’s literally the what I do. And so they’ll send those short messages on my behalf, nope, sorry, can’t do five o’clock. You know, Joe’s daughter’s got volleyball, or whatever, right, and they could send it back. But the you know, the whole goal of it, is to recognize what’s important. And put that in front of in front of my face. And I’ll speak from my experience, put that in front of my face, so that I can actually address just the things that are important. And to be honest, the more you get through it, you have somebody kind of comb through your inbox for you, the smaller the amount of important things actually show up on a daily basis. And so there’s many days that I literally don’t respond anything I haven’t, there’s nothing for me to actually say, in regards to an email reply, my team has figured it out. So I don’t know if that helps. But I mean, you know, just the basic the the initial organization is is a big deal. We take it for the divisions of the company marketing, sales, you know, HR, finance, each of the division of the companies, they each have their own inbox, we try to pass in a set of rules, have all of those things come through. And then really, it’s, it’s a matter of prioritizing the urgency versus the mundane, you can get back to the mundane. And that’s, you know, I guess one last piece of it, too, is if there’s a whole bunch of just things that obviously aren’t important, but they still don’t know really how to address it. I get that in one summary. And all I have to do is reply to it in Slack. And then they send it out.

Jeremy Burrows 12:52
Nice, nice, yeah, I have. I have a similar system where I, I still use email, but I split off all the like a bunch of automatic filters in Gmail, and it splits off a bunch of the junk and the FYI stuff to a separate section, so that the things that he actually sees missio actually sees in his inbox are generally things that he needs to see or he needs to reply to. Right. There’s still some stuff I have to filter out. But it’s a lot better than all these notifications and spam things coming in to the site.

Joe Rare 13:29
Is there anything specific you do to filter those?

Jeremy Burrows 13:32
There are certain things like I’ll even have a rule or a tag where I’ll say, if the word unsubscribe found in the email, then yeah, block that out, filter that out

Joe Rare 13:45
here, one of the coolest things, like I’ll go in every now and then this was added even though this my assistant came up to me and told me this. And I was like, all of a sudden, you know, it’s like, I just check my check the inbox and just make sure like, nothing’s getting crazy. And like, there’s just like nothing in it. And like this, there’s no possible way I get hundreds of emails a day, like easily. There’s no way there’s nothing in this inbox. And I was like, how are you doing that? Because that’s a lot of work to get through. And like, you know, pull all those and put them on. And then they told me that exact thing. The rule is if the word unsubscribe is in there, right, pull it into its own separate thing. So I went and checked that debt folder, and they don’t delete it for you know, a period of time, right? And they scour through and make sure nothing slipped through. But it was fascinating to go check it out and see

Jeremy Burrows 14:35
how much of it is yeah,

Joe Rare 14:37
it’s it’s all trash. Yeah. And I’m like, Oh my Lord, how much stuff have I you know, have I subscribe to that I didn’t even know about right

Jeremy Burrows 14:45
is super interesting. So okay, that’s awesome. So super helpful tips. Tell us in general, though, about recruiting and training and managing virtual assistants.

Joe Rare 14:58
You know, the hard part is I don’t do it anymore. You know, and that’s, that’s part of the beauty of it, I have an entire HR team, and they do the recruiting, but we use, I mean, we use every channel available from, whether it’s LinkedIn or Facebook, it’s, you know, Facebook groups, it’s, you know, LinkedIn groups, it’s running ads on social media to, you know, most of our team happens to be overseas. So we use all of the platforms over there. We also have a team that scours, you know, college graduates and tries to get newly, you know, people who are in the process of graduating and try to get them to come in. And then you know, that recruiting process, we use a platform called Bamboo HR, to, for our recruiting stuff, and you know, where our team and all of our HR stuff is sitting, that makes it really helpful when we have a new opening, we actually send it out to our entire staff first and let people that are already in our ecosystem, take the first shot at it, and if they if they want the role, and there’s, you know, the opportunity for them. So we give them that the management of virtual assistants has been interesting. So it’s changed over the over time, we’ve needed more people, then we needed less people to manage the volume, and then we needed more people. And now we’ve just got a really, really good system. And our focus is on building culture. And it’s doing fun things, you know, with people being virtual, the challenge is holding relationships. While nobody’s face to face, right, and even, you know, the majority of our team is in the Philippines. And with our team in the Philippines, the challenge is that, well, they don’t all live like next door to each other, it’s not like, they can just like take a road trip and all get together, right, they could be completely on separate islands, all over the place, you know, some people are on the province, and people are in the city. And it really kind of depends where, where they’re located. And so doing, you know, a couple times a year, we do events where we actually get everybody on and, you know, this kind of became a normal thing, especially during COVID, where we would get on and we do every beginning of the year, we do a huge kickoff party, the end of the year, we do stuff for you know, the holidays, kind of middle of the year, we do kind of State of the Union type stuff, but there’s all these games and and just fun stuff for people to get involved with. And then we you know, even we have we have teams of people who, you know, get together, you know, virtually, obviously, to plan these events. And so, you know, we’ll put together teams that can actually go do that. And I guess committees would be an easier way to call it. And so trying to create ways that people are developing culture, you know, we have an internal Facebook community, where it’s just our team, and everybody in the entire company, who work with clients and so forth. They’re all available right there to work together. And then we have coaches who helped oversee all the VAs and make sure that they have support when they need it. So I know that’s kind of a lot. But yeah, there’s there’s a ton of moving parts, especially when you know, we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of the yeas and I’m not even sure where we’re at today. But

Jeremy Burrows 18:04
I was gonna say, Yeah, I was curious how many you have on the team? Yeah, so

Joe Rare 18:08
we we were just over 800 A while ago, I’m not sure. Where up or down? We are, you know, currently, but

Jeremy Burrows 18:16
yes, it’s a lot of money. Do you know roughly how many clients that those? Yeah, so,

Joe Rare 18:20
so total clients, just over 900. And we’ve worked with over 4000 Just over the past few years, you know, especially because we have so many projects, that’s why it’s kind of difficult, and I’m kind of like humming on, because we have the project based side of things that is just like, hey, come in, get some projects done, and then you’re gone. Right. And then we have dedicated which is people who actually hire a team, and then they build their staff around our, our, you know, systems and our vas. And so it’s always kind of up and down. We have tons of project people, you know, like I just spoke at an event and we brought on 60 Something clients in like an hour and it was kind of nuts, all of a sudden it’s like, whoa, hold on. Okay, we’ve got a bunch of new VAs that I have to work to. So yeah, it was pretty, pretty fun, but it gets wild. Yeah. So lots of people, lots personalities,

Jeremy Burrows 19:12
so assistants listening who were you know, normal, you know, quote, unquote, normal, full time, salaried position, but they’re thinking I want to do some extra side hustle, virtual assistant work, or maybe I want to become a full time remote virtual assistant and move to Hawaii or whatever. Yeah. What do you guys have any opportunities for assistants? Like, are you are you generally hiring on your on your website? Or is it more of a word of mouth recruiting system on your end?

Joe Rare 19:41
I you know, I believe there’s a careers page on our site typically. And I should check that because I don’t know. I know that there was one but that that literally just goes to the the job openings through our bamboo page. But yeah, so anything that’s open is available and if people want to do that, I mean We have clients coming in every single day. We have job openings constantly. So you know, we have this delicate balance within the business that we actually have two sides that we have to manage. One is we have to get clients because clients hire the PAs, then we have to go get assistance, and staff them and staff them for the clients. And there’s this delicate balance of having enough assistants for the number of sales, but then enough sales for the number of assistants it’s so like, it’s really this delicate balance. So yeah, so it kind of just depends what what capacity in which direction we’re looking. Sometimes it’s like, we need more assistance. And then other times we need more sales. So kind of you know, it’s Yeah, I

Jeremy Burrows 20:43
love I love how you’re like, I don’t know, I don’t know, I haven’t done that in a while. I don’t know, I haven’t done that.

Joe Rare 20:49
Very fair, is it? No, it’s

Jeremy Burrows 20:51
great. Because it’s like, what’s your what’s your tip for, you know, part of this is the business process standardization and just outsourcing. But like, I know, a lot of executives have a really hard time you mentioned email, letting go their email, but like, you’re actually saying, hey, you know, you guys are running an actual business. So how what are what are the tips for letting other people trusting other people and setting them up? Well to run? Yeah, you know, your baby, if you will?

Joe Rare 21:19
Well, there’s a, there’s a couple things, the first thing that I would say is, like make this they make the shift in your mind that that’s what you want that you want that type of business because that isn’t a normal business, like me. So I snowmobile almost every day in the winter, like, the like, I don’t work in the winter period, and I snowmobile almost every day. And so when it starts to get chilly, and I’m like, Cool, I’m gonna put on, you know, like a long sleeve, I’m starting to get excited because the snows you know, I hear this, it’s supposed to snow and Yellowstone this week, like, No, I’m like, Okay, we’re coming. But anyhow, so like, they have to decide that that’s what they want. And as an entrepreneur on, I’m somewhat lazy, I don’t want to work. So my mentality is very different than somebody who’s kind of addicted to their job, they really liked the high pressure, they like all of those things. I personally don’t, I so much would rather sit at my daughter’s volleyball game, or take my kids horseback riding. That’s where like, that’s, that’s the only thing I really care about is family time. And so I that’s the first thing is, is the mentality and the end, I call it an agreement, making an agreement with yourself, that you’re gonna get out of your business, and you’re gonna allow somebody else. So that’s the first thing. The second thing is, is, you know, not being afraid to allow your team to fail. So as you build this team, it’s, you know, the first thing I said, you know, in my intro was failing is the fastest way to success. And a lot of times what happens is when people hire, they don’t even want to realize that they made a mistake in the hiring process. And so they let the person stick around and just completely screw things up. And it never works out. And they never get out of their business. And, and you know, they never put the right person in place. Because they’re kind of ego stuck in the fact that I made a bad hire. And I think I think go out fail, realize that you’re going to suck it at hiring first, that’s going to be awful. So hire quickly, fire faster. Let your team make mistakes, though. And that’s when you’re going to find who ends up being gold is when you make them when when you allow them and you give them the space to make mistakes. And then you watch how they rebound. You’ll know if they’re the right people or not. And when they don’t go make the same mistake twice, you go, okay, great, this is perfect. This is the right person, you know, for this role. And I think that a lot of people are just afraid to kind of let that happen. And you know, we put together a budget and say, Look, here, here for this project, we have this budget. And if you screw it up, we’re prepared to lose it. But we believe that the investment in you the investment in whatever this is going to be that we’re going to put resources forward to allow you the opportunity to go do something right, screw something up, but fix it in the end. And eventually it’ll end up ROI positive. And so I’m really a huge fan of allowing people to space to go screw up, but then watch how they respond. And that’ll tell you everything you need to know.

Jeremy Burrows 24:22
Right? That’s awesome. Well, Joe, thank you so much for being on the show. I want to finish up with kind of a different question than I’ve that I typically do. And this question would be like, what’s the biggest mistake you’ve made? specifically as it relates to working with an assistant? Perfect?

Joe Rare 24:39
I know exactly what it is. I this one, I made it last year. It’s been actually I think this month is a year. I believe that this person who worked in our company should be at a higher role, an executive role, to be honest. And I tried to push her into this role. that I felt was the next move in her career. And I said look like, this is where we’re going to take you, this is where we’re going to get going. And there was resistance on her side in the fact that all of the and this is a rock star, this was a rock star, she was one of the absolute best. And all of a sudden, there’s this resistance. And I’m like, I can’t figure this out. I’m telling her the path to literally become an executive. And all we need you to do is X, Y, and Z. And there was just massive resistance, like no follow through, out of nowhere. And I could not figure it out. And then she ends up quitting. So she resigned, here’s, you know, highest paid person in the entire company, she resigns, she moves on. And it came to me later, and I realized I pushed her where she wasn’t supposed to go, right. And I put her I was trying to put her in a role that number one she wasn’t suited for, if I got honest with myself, she wasn’t suited for that role, she would have failed in it. And I would have been responsible because I put her in that role. And I pushed her to do it. And secondly, I didn’t create the right environment. For her the right I guess, relationship, for her to feel like she could tell me that she didn’t want it and that it wasn’t right for her. And so I didn’t set her on a path, that was the best thing for her overall, which would have then been the best thing for the company. And that was hands down, probably the biggest management mistake as far as people go that I’ve ever made. And it’s changed how we how we look at managing our staff. And you know, it’s like, I want everybody that freedom to go fail and fix it. But I also want to guide them where they want to go. And so that’s been huge. But yeah,

Jeremy Burrows 26:51
yeah, well, I appreciate you sharing that I actually was on one of our leader, Assistant, Zoom chats today. And we were talking about similar concept of, you know, these assistants that are really crushing it, and they’re growing, and they’re owning more and more responsibility and doing, oftentimes doing executive level tasks, but people are like, or people around them are like, Okay, well, when are you going to move on to a different role? When are you going to work your way up the corporate ladder? And they’re like, I, I just like being an assistant, like,

Joe Rare 27:24
Yeah, this is where I’m at,

Jeremy Burrows 27:25
this is what I what I want to do. And, you know, some cultures and some environments don’t really encourage that and like support that they’re like, Well, you need to you need to go out of that role. If you’re wanting to do what you’re you’re trying to do. And so yeah, it can be a bit sticky, sticky situation and tough to now it’s

Joe Rare 27:45
yeah, it’s very interesting. It’s, especially if your personality like mine, mine is like I’m, I consider myself high achiever, like always, you know, wanting to accomplish more, you know, it’s like, if I’m snowmobiling, it’s like that mountains higher, let’s find that one. You know, with my kids, and, and, you know, sports and everything else. I mean, you know, they want to get better and better and better. And so it’s, you know, the next training the next coach and, and every opportunity we can for those things, because that’s, that’s how we’re wired. And not everybody is wired that way. And so I think I did a really poor job of recognizing how somebody was wired, to give them the best opportunity for themselves. And I really screwed that up. And so it’s something that I look at every single day, and I’m hoping, you know, that I’m also creating the environment where somebody feels comfortable to let me know, hey, Joe, like, that’s not the direction I want to go. You know, this is what I want to do, and I love what I’m doing. And that’s it. So, yeah.

Jeremy Burrows 28:41
Awesome. Well, Joe, thanks again for being on the show. What’s the best place for people to reach out and connect and learn more about level nine virtual or view and all the different projects you’re in?

Joe Rare 28:53
Now, the easiest is level nine So level number nine Or you can always email me Joe at level nine And my assistant will get back to you.

Jeremy Burrows 29:05
Love it. Perfect. Well, thanks again, Joe. And I’ll put all those links in the show notes at Thank you everyone for listening. And thanks, Joe, for being on the show.

Joe Rare 29:23
Thanks 10 I appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 29:35
Please review on Apple podcasts.

Unknown Speaker 29:44


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