Dawn Marraccino is a seasoned executive assistant with over 20 years of experience in the nonprofit sector.
In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Dawn talks about being a strategic partner as an executive assistant, living on a sailboat, and shares her journey toward burnout – and her recovery from it.
LEADERSHIP QUOTE
Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind.
– Brené Brown
CONNECT WITH DAWN
ABOUT DAWN
Dawn Marraccino is a seasoned life coach and executive assistant coach with over twenty years of experience in the nonprofit sector.
An ICF-certified life coach, Dawn specializes in empowering executive assistants within ministry and nonprofit organizations. Her program enhances ministry operations, leadership impact, and vision execution with excellence.
Dawn’s coaching philosophy is practical and rooted in real-world experiences, focusing on strategic leadership, communication, and holistic growth. Outside of coaching, she enjoys life as a wife, mother, Nonna, and avid sailor, embodying a spirit of adventure and discovery!
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00.000 –> 00:00:01.560
DAWN: Hi, I’m Dawn Marraccino.
00:00:01.740 –> 00:00:08.120
DAWN: Today’s leadership quote comes from Brene Brown, and it is that clear is kind, unclear is unkind.
00:00:14.320 –> 00:00:21.780
<v SPEAKER_3>The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.
00:00:30.299 –> 00:00:30.719
JEREMY: Thanks for watching!
00:00:30.739 –> 00:00:39.879
JEREMY: Everyone is talking about Nova Chief of Staff, and it’s no surprise when graduates walk away with huge benefits, like greater confidence and the validation that they can do the role.
00:00:40.479 –> 00:00:48.999
JEREMY: There are over 300 students in the Nova Chief of Staff Certification course, many of which are growth-minded executive assistants like you.
00:00:49.519 –> 00:01:00.559
JEREMY: Many of the leader assistants taking the course aren’t necessarily looking for a promotion, they simply want to become more effective, strategic, and game-changing assistants.
00:01:01.219 –> 00:01:05.999
JEREMY: Over 18 countries around the globe are represented by students in Nova’s course.
00:01:06.219 –> 00:01:08.359
JEREMY: So I highly recommend you join the club.
00:01:08.759 –> 00:01:15.659
JEREMY: Visit leaderassistant.com/nova to learn more about this amazing professional development resource.
00:01:16.479 –> 00:01:18.699
JEREMY: Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast.
00:01:18.719 –> 00:01:22.719
JEREMY: It’s your host Jeremy Burrows, and this is episode 278.
00:01:22.739 –> 00:01:28.699
JEREMY: You can check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/278.
00:01:29.199 –> 00:01:33.619
JEREMY: That’s leaderassistant.com/278.
00:01:34.039 –> 00:01:37.459
JEREMY: And today I’m very excited to be speaking with Dawn Marraccino.
00:01:37.519 –> 00:01:47.199
JEREMY: Dawn is a seasoned life coach and executive assistant coach, and she has over 20 years of experience in the nonprofit sector.
00:01:47.659 –> 00:01:48.799
JEREMY: Dawn, welcome to the show.
00:01:49.639 –> 00:01:50.539
DAWN: Oh, thank you, Jeremy.
00:01:50.559 –> 00:01:51.679
DAWN: It’s a privilege to be here.
00:01:52.119 –> 00:01:55.239
DAWN: Definitely followed you for a long time and I’m super grateful.
00:01:56.179 –> 00:01:56.579
JEREMY: Awesome.
00:01:56.619 –> 00:01:57.999
JEREMY: And what part of the world are you in?
00:01:58.799 –> 00:02:01.379
DAWN: I am in sunny Newport Beach, California.
00:02:02.079 –> 00:02:03.859
DAWN: So Southern California, Orange County.
00:02:04.719 –> 00:02:05.159
JEREMY: Love it.
00:02:05.279 –> 00:02:15.079
JEREMY: I am sitting here staring at the cloudy, cold Kansas City weather, wishing I was in the beach right now.
00:02:15.099 –> 00:02:16.799
DAWN: It’s pretty great.
00:02:17.079 –> 00:02:17.619
DAWN: I do.
00:02:17.959 –> 00:02:18.799
DAWN: I can’t complain.
00:02:19.499 –> 00:02:26.619
JEREMY: Now, I hear you have an interesting living situation, so tell us a little bit more about your headquarters in Newport Beach.
00:02:27.519 –> 00:02:29.699
DAWN: I do have an interesting living situation.
00:02:29.719 –> 00:02:37.999
DAWN: During COVID, my husband and I took the plunge and bought a beautiful 47-foot sailboat named Bellamy and Dawn.
00:02:38.019 –> 00:02:40.399
DAWN: He was smart and named it after his wife.
00:02:41.279 –> 00:02:47.699
DAWN: And in June of this year, we made a decision to go ahead and actually live aboard.
00:02:48.359 –> 00:02:57.219
DAWN: So here we are, and it comes, I’m sure you’ve seen on some social, some reels of tiny houses, so it’s a tiny house.
00:03:00.399 –> 00:03:02.239
DAWN: Tiny house on water, yes.
00:03:02.259 –> 00:03:04.899
DAWN: So you think about, it was very cold in the winter.
00:03:04.919 –> 00:03:10.219
DAWN: I know not cold Kansas City, cold, not cold New York, cold, not cold, you know, Alaska cold.
00:03:10.239 –> 00:03:18.299
DAWN: But when you think about sitting in water during the winter, and it dips down to 45 around here, you know, maybe low 40s, it was a little chilly.
00:03:18.539 –> 00:03:20.059
DAWN: But the summer is phenomenal.
00:03:20.079 –> 00:03:21.559
DAWN: Looking forward to another year.
00:03:21.579 –> 00:03:22.939
DAWN: Can’t wait, actually.
00:03:23.219 –> 00:03:25.099
DAWN: I’ve been shocked at how well I’ve adapted.
00:03:25.159 –> 00:03:31.239
DAWN: And we have a adorable little 14-pound golden doodle that we share the space with as well.
00:03:31.719 –> 00:03:33.059
JEREMY: Wow, that’s awesome.
00:03:33.199 –> 00:03:33.499
DAWN: Yeah.
00:03:34.119 –> 00:03:38.859
JEREMY: Well, I definitely will have to get a good picture of you on your boat.
00:03:39.339 –> 00:03:39.979
DAWN: You betcha.
00:03:39.999 –> 00:03:43.179
JEREMY: To share in the show notes for this episode so people can check it out.
00:03:44.039 –> 00:03:47.119
DAWN: Jeremy, you come to Newport Beach, we’ll take you out in the ocean.
00:03:47.219 –> 00:03:49.179
DAWN: So we absolutely love doing that.
00:03:49.239 –> 00:03:51.179
DAWN: So anyone can hit me up.
00:03:51.199 –> 00:03:52.159
DAWN: It’s one of a joy.
00:03:52.239 –> 00:03:53.779
DAWN: So we don’t just live on it.
00:03:53.799 –> 00:03:54.939
DAWN: We go out in the ocean.
00:03:55.139 –> 00:03:58.979
DAWN: We sail to Catalina, which is about 26 miles from here, spend weekends.
00:03:58.999 –> 00:03:59.799
DAWN: It’s pretty phenomenal.
00:04:00.159 –> 00:04:01.199
DAWN: So it’s been fun.
00:04:01.579 –> 00:04:02.439
DAWN: We’re adventurers.
00:04:02.459 –> 00:04:04.099
DAWN: My husband just climbed Kilimanjaro.
00:04:04.319 –> 00:04:05.099
DAWN: We like adventure.
00:04:05.219 –> 00:04:05.639
JEREMY: Wow.
00:04:05.659 –> 00:04:05.979
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:04:06.199 –> 00:04:10.939
JEREMY: So do you, how long have you been an adventurers?
00:04:11.119 –> 00:04:14.019
JEREMY: Did you, do you have kids or they, did they grow up?
00:04:14.019 –> 00:04:15.919
JEREMY: And you’re like, oh, well, let’s, let’s adventure now.
00:04:15.939 –> 00:04:17.639
JEREMY: Like, what’s your kind of story there?
00:04:17.659 –> 00:04:18.719
DAWN: I love that question.
00:04:18.719 –> 00:04:20.059
DAWN: I love that Jeremy.
00:04:20.119 –> 00:04:21.259
DAWN: We have four children.
00:04:21.279 –> 00:04:22.019
DAWN: They are grown.
00:04:22.039 –> 00:04:28.639
DAWN: I have three amazing grandkids that are ranging in age from 10 to 16.
00:04:28.979 –> 00:04:30.999
DAWN: Our grandkids, our kiddos are all adults.
00:04:31.639 –> 00:04:35.279
DAWN: And we were, we moved back to Orange County from Dallas.
00:04:35.299 –> 00:04:36.219
DAWN: We had been living there.
00:04:36.539 –> 00:04:44.079
DAWN: We were sitting on the water in a restaurant right around the corner from where our boat is and said, let’s take up sailing.
00:04:44.519 –> 00:04:47.099
DAWN: We read a book called The Sail of Two Idiots.
00:04:47.119 –> 00:04:47.879
DAWN: There’s a plug.
00:04:48.379 –> 00:04:51.359
DAWN: And I was like, I think we can do this.
00:04:51.639 –> 00:04:55.999
DAWN: And long-term goal is actually to sail to the Caribbean from Orange County.
00:04:57.319 –> 00:04:59.119
DAWN: So like always adventures.
00:04:59.139 –> 00:05:00.279
DAWN: No, we did Little League.
00:05:00.299 –> 00:05:01.139
DAWN: Like what do you have kids?
00:05:01.159 –> 00:05:01.539
DAWN: What do you do?
00:05:01.559 –> 00:05:02.539
DAWN: I do Little League.
00:05:02.559 –> 00:05:03.779
DAWN: We did soccer.
00:05:03.799 –> 00:05:05.219
DAWN: We did baseball.
00:05:05.239 –> 00:05:06.099
DAWN: We did dance.
00:05:06.119 –> 00:05:09.079
DAWN: You do, you know, I was working moms.
00:05:09.399 –> 00:05:11.459
DAWN: So no, I wouldn’t say we’re always adventures.
00:05:12.319 –> 00:05:16.419
JEREMY: Well, now you’ve got a lot of time then I guess to explore the world.
00:05:16.439 –> 00:05:16.999
JEREMY: Absolutely.
00:05:17.079 –> 00:05:17.859
DAWN: Empty nest.
00:05:18.939 –> 00:05:19.339
DAWN: Cool.
00:05:19.359 –> 00:05:21.299
JEREMY: Well, tell us a little bit about your career.
00:05:21.359 –> 00:05:24.439
JEREMY: What got you into the assistant career?
00:05:25.539 –> 00:05:28.139
DAWN: Oh gosh, Jeremy, it was haphazard.
00:05:28.159 –> 00:05:29.139
DAWN: You have a lot of guests.
00:05:29.159 –> 00:05:33.879
DAWN: I certainly listened to a fair number of your shows and it’s not always an unusual route.
00:05:34.039 –> 00:05:42.839
DAWN: So I was attending a little church called Saddleback where Pastor Rick Warren, you may have heard of the book Purpose Driven Life.
00:05:43.339 –> 00:05:55.799
DAWN: So we were here in Orange County attending that church and I got tapped on the shoulder, was in some women’s leadership and was asked to start part-time temporary until they found another assistant because I had some administrative gifts.
00:05:56.379 –> 00:06:01.319
DAWN: Our 27-year-old was in kindergarten at that time and that has turned into a beautiful career.
00:06:02.079 –> 00:06:05.019
DAWN: So did I dream of being an assistant when I was a little girl?
00:06:05.199 –> 00:06:05.599
DAWN: No.
00:06:06.099 –> 00:06:11.499
DAWN: I’d be curious Jeremy, has anyone ever said, yes, I always wanted to be an assistant.
00:06:11.819 –> 00:06:14.299
DAWN: I think it’s kind of a windy road sometimes.
00:06:14.499 –> 00:06:16.999
DAWN: And I had a lot of administrative gifts.
00:06:17.019 –> 00:06:20.759
DAWN: I had a background in, actually, I was in retail management.
00:06:21.099 –> 00:06:24.199
DAWN: I worked at Nordstrom and was in management and a few other.
00:06:25.039 –> 00:06:31.219
DAWN: Ann Taylor, some places, had kiddos, I taught group exercise, did travel agent.
00:06:31.239 –> 00:06:37.519
DAWN: I’m kind of gritty and a little bit of a hustler, meaning I’m going to always find something to be doing.
00:06:37.699 –> 00:06:41.239
DAWN: And I was in leadership at the church and was just tapped.
00:06:41.899 –> 00:06:45.439
DAWN: And here I am now over two decades later, honestly.
00:06:46.039 –> 00:06:53.859
DAWN: So I’ve had just an amazing privilege to be on staff at three different large churches in two different states.
00:06:54.239 –> 00:06:55.459
DAWN: That was never my intention.
00:06:56.139 –> 00:06:58.059
DAWN: I didn’t, again, you don’t, I don’t know.
00:06:58.739 –> 00:07:03.559
DAWN: Like I said, I’ve listened to some of your shows and it usually a lot of times it ends up that way.
00:07:03.939 –> 00:07:04.279
JEREMY: Right.
00:07:04.319 –> 00:07:04.619
DAWN: Right.
00:07:05.259 –> 00:07:05.519
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:07:05.539 –> 00:07:22.699
JEREMY: I mean, I think there was maybe one or two that I’ve talked with that it’s not necessarily that they dreamed of it, but like maybe their mom was an assistant and they kind of grew up like in that seeing it and started really young as well, taking after their mom.
00:07:22.719 –> 00:07:30.479
JEREMY: So, but yeah, it’s not like it’s like and there’s this general deal back in the day where it was like, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up?
00:07:30.539 –> 00:07:33.619
JEREMY: Astronaut, firefighter, you know, exactly.
00:07:33.919 –> 00:07:39.439
JEREMY: And yeah, it’s don’t know that anybody actually said an executive assistant.
00:07:39.999 –> 00:07:40.479
<v SPEAKER_4>Sure.
00:07:40.479 –> 00:07:46.019
DAWN: And maybe, you know, fortunately, you know, I certainly was never air quotes secretary.
00:07:46.039 –> 00:07:50.979
DAWN: Like I don’t even think even going back 20 years, it was definitely you’re an EA.
00:07:51.079 –> 00:07:59.179
DAWN: And I’ve just loved the space that you and a lot of other voices have created where you’re a strategic partner and fortunate.
00:07:59.199 –> 00:08:08.339
DAWN: I’ve been fortunate to work for several people that actually empowered me and said those things to me that like, no, you’re a strategic partner.
00:08:08.359 –> 00:08:08.719
<v SPEAKER_4>No.
00:08:08.979 –> 00:08:15.059
DAWN: And allowed me to operate in that space so that I grew myself in leadership.
00:08:15.959 –> 00:08:18.619
DAWN: I grew and I love like, you’re an assistant.
00:08:18.639 –> 00:08:25.079
DAWN: And I think that sometimes people still think it’s about getting coffee and I’m not opposed to getting coffee.
00:08:25.299 –> 00:08:27.059
DAWN: I don’t, but it’s really cool.
00:08:27.119 –> 00:08:27.559
DAWN: Like, sure.
00:08:27.579 –> 00:08:32.199
DAWN: I also have been a key stakeholder in $50 million capital campaigns.
00:08:32.599 –> 00:08:46.819
DAWN: I’ve also galvanized volunteers and been just given amazing opportunities of working in spaces that certainly expand beyond what I think people typically think of an executive assistant.
00:08:47.559 –> 00:09:00.039
DAWN: So I’ve just been really fortunate to have worked along some absolutely strategic, amazing leaders that have allowed me to grow and nudged me to grow and encouraged me to grow and given me a seat at the table.
00:09:00.699 –> 00:09:02.879
DAWN: So it’s been absolutely fantastic.
00:09:02.899 –> 00:09:10.797
<v SPEAKER_4>Thank you Are you ready to elevate your career in 2024?
00:09:11.737 –> 00:09:19.417
<v SPEAKER_4>I’m Maggie Olson, founder of Nova Chief of Staff Certification, the first of its kind online course for aspiring and existing chiefs of staff.
00:09:20.037 –> 00:09:31.557
<v SPEAKER_4>With curriculum taken directly from on-the-job responsibilities, Nova’s self-paced learning modules provides you with hands-on experience so you can feel competent and confident moving into a chief of staff style role.
00:09:32.217 –> 00:09:34.637
<v SPEAKER_4>It’s the perfect next step for executive assistants.
00:09:35.197 –> 00:09:40.257
<v SPEAKER_4>Head to leaderassistant.com/nova to learn more, grab the syllabus, and enroll today.
00:09:44.637 –> 00:09:45.197
JEREMY: That’s great.
00:09:45.197 –> 00:10:08.637
JEREMY: What’s maybe something, you know, for those listening that are like, oh, you know, I really see the value in being a strategic partner and I want to be one, but I don’t know that my organization or my team or my executive is on board or knows how, knows that that’s kind of what can happen and should happen really.
00:10:09.057 –> 00:10:27.897
JEREMY: And so what’s maybe a practical tip for those listening if they just simply want to say, okay, how do I A, become a strategic partner practically, but B, you know, for lack of a better word, convince my executive that I should be a strategic partner?
00:10:27.917 –> 00:10:30.377
DAWN: Absolutely, because I’ve seen it.
00:10:31.537 –> 00:10:36.717
DAWN: You know, it’s been over 22 decades and I’ve been in three different mega churches.
00:10:36.737 –> 00:10:45.017
DAWN: So not every person, nor every role that I have been in has permitted that, you know, within those organizations.
00:10:45.577 –> 00:10:52.257
DAWN: Most recently, I was Eric Geiger’s assistant at Mariners Church and he wrote Simple Church.
00:10:52.277 –> 00:10:53.577
DAWN: He’s a bestselling author.
00:10:54.077 –> 00:10:59.477
DAWN: And having a simple conversation with him is actually all I needed to do.
00:10:59.937 –> 00:11:02.777
DAWN: So I do encourage and it’s scary.
00:11:02.797 –> 00:11:05.557
DAWN: I don’t know why it’s so scary.
00:11:05.857 –> 00:11:22.477
DAWN: But if you see an area you want to play in, like if you’re good at something, you’re naturally gifted, or you have any background in something or even just want to do something, I highly encourage you to actually sit down and have the courageous conversation.
00:11:23.057 –> 00:11:25.797
DAWN: Because I wanted to be a part of a capital campaign.
00:11:26.037 –> 00:11:31.597
DAWN: I wanted to have more involvement in the donor relationship aspect.
00:11:31.617 –> 00:11:33.877
DAWN: It’s something that I was naturally good at.
00:11:34.517 –> 00:11:39.297
DAWN: So it was a unique combination of being good in the details as well as big picture.
00:11:40.157 –> 00:11:44.477
DAWN: So I pressed in on that and was allowed to be a key stakeholder.
00:11:44.737 –> 00:11:47.517
DAWN: The other area, I’m a Bible nerd, guys.
00:11:47.897 –> 00:11:49.317
DAWN: I have a degree in religion.
00:11:49.757 –> 00:11:54.097
DAWN: And so I was like, can I review your manuscript for your weekend?
00:11:54.917 –> 00:11:59.537
DAWN: And started, and then I ended up a permanent fixture on the teaching team.
00:11:59.937 –> 00:12:11.197
DAWN: Now, what I mean by that is I’m not teaching because just for listeners to have clarity, I’m a part of the meeting that reviewed the manuscript on a weekly basis for a message that was going out on a weekly basis.
00:12:11.577 –> 00:12:15.417
DAWN: So, and a lot of times it was, you know, this would be funny.
00:12:15.977 –> 00:12:18.717
DAWN: So I think, you know, you’re doing something on mental health.
00:12:19.237 –> 00:12:20.197
DAWN: You need to quote L.
00:12:20.217 –> 00:12:20.597
DAWN: Woods.
00:12:20.597 –> 00:12:21.417
DAWN: He’s like, who’s L.
00:12:21.437 –> 00:12:21.897
DAWN: Woods?
00:12:21.917 –> 00:12:23.537
DAWN: I’m like, L.
00:12:23.557 –> 00:12:24.597
DAWN: Woods, Legally Blonde.
00:12:24.617 –> 00:12:26.017
DAWN: Exercise gives you endorphins.
00:12:26.037 –> 00:12:27.097
DAWN: Endorphins make you happy.
00:12:27.277 –> 00:12:29.037
DAWN: Happy people just don’t kill their husbands.
00:12:29.317 –> 00:12:30.817
DAWN: Like, it’ll be funny.
00:12:30.897 –> 00:12:34.137
DAWN: So just, I encourage you.
00:12:34.157 –> 00:12:38.757
DAWN: I know it’s scary, but if you know something, you’re a secret weapon.
00:12:39.277 –> 00:12:41.757
DAWN: Like, you need to, like, have the confidence.
00:12:42.577 –> 00:12:46.097
DAWN: And this might not be popular, so you can edit this out, Jeremy.
00:12:46.877 –> 00:12:50.197
DAWN: You know, like, but if you’re not seeing that way, move on.
00:12:50.617 –> 00:12:51.937
DAWN: Life is way too short.
00:12:52.437 –> 00:12:55.717
DAWN: So there are organizations, and I’m not in a like, oh, quit.
00:12:55.737 –> 00:12:58.037
DAWN: I have longevity at places.
00:12:58.277 –> 00:13:02.057
DAWN: But at times, I think it is, like, my value.
00:13:02.597 –> 00:13:05.037
DAWN: Jamie Lynn Kerma, I am a huge fan of.
00:13:05.077 –> 00:13:11.197
DAWN: She is the person who developed the IT Cosmetics, was purchased by L’Oreal.
00:13:11.217 –> 00:13:18.577
DAWN: She’s a woman billionaire who speaks so much, and she wrote a book on worthiness, and it’s called Worthy.
00:13:18.617 –> 00:13:26.517
DAWN: And recently, I was reading it, and she said, God’s just hiding your preciousness.
00:13:26.537 –> 00:13:30.297
DAWN: I don’t want to misquote her, but basically, God’s hiding your brilliance from them for now.
00:13:30.577 –> 00:13:41.277
DAWN: So however, whoever you’re, like, whatever belief system you have, I happen to be a Christian, but whatever you believe, like, your brilliance is just being hidden from them.
00:13:41.297 –> 00:13:42.917
DAWN: So don’t take it personally.
00:13:43.377 –> 00:13:45.637
DAWN: Like, rejection is just a part of life.
00:13:46.117 –> 00:13:49.217
DAWN: So if they don’t see that, don’t be afraid to do it again.
00:13:49.897 –> 00:13:51.977
DAWN: I guess that’s a long answer, man.
00:13:53.417 –> 00:13:55.237
JEREMY: No, it’s all good.
00:13:55.257 –> 00:13:56.137
JEREMY: Thanks for sharing.
00:13:57.377 –> 00:14:02.797
JEREMY: Tell us a little bit about the challenges that you’ve had in your career.
00:14:03.017 –> 00:14:20.857
JEREMY: And maybe, I know we’re going to talk about burnout for sure, but maybe some specific examples of, like, really, really challenging times and how you have to navigate that and maybe doubting yourself in the midst of those challenges and all the things.
00:14:21.717 –> 00:14:22.357
DAWN: Big time.
00:14:22.377 –> 00:14:24.777
DAWN: I mean, imposter syndrome is a real thing.
00:14:25.497 –> 00:14:28.697
DAWN: And as an EA, I have definitely suffered from it.
00:14:28.717 –> 00:14:30.657
DAWN: Do I really deserve a seat at the table?
00:14:30.897 –> 00:14:33.197
DAWN: Am I in here to simply take notes?
00:14:33.817 –> 00:14:34.157
DAWN: Am I?
00:14:34.177 –> 00:14:36.037
DAWN: And there’s nothing wrong if you’re there to take notes.
00:14:36.057 –> 00:14:42.237
DAWN: But I’m saying, like, if you are feeling something stirring inside of you, and I have struggled with that, like, where is my seat?
00:14:42.257 –> 00:14:43.377
DAWN: Do I have a seat?
00:14:43.697 –> 00:14:45.377
DAWN: I’m in the leadership room.
00:14:46.617 –> 00:14:47.777
DAWN: Am I allowed to speak?
00:14:48.517 –> 00:14:50.437
DAWN: Like, I mean, this is a real thing.
00:14:50.457 –> 00:14:55.437
DAWN: And as I have matured, I have come to that.
00:14:55.557 –> 00:15:01.257
DAWN: And working with people that value that has also helped me grow in that area.
00:15:01.317 –> 00:15:05.757
DAWN: So allowing that, I remember a specific situation.
00:15:08.117 –> 00:15:15.157
DAWN: We were transitioning from the founding person of the church into current leadership.
00:15:15.537 –> 00:15:21.777
DAWN: And I was asked if I would consider being considered to support the new person.
00:15:22.297 –> 00:15:27.037
DAWN: And I thought, consider being considered, is that an invitation to an interview?
00:15:27.057 –> 00:15:28.517
DAWN: I didn’t really understand it.
00:15:28.837 –> 00:15:30.157
DAWN: And it was a confusing time.
00:15:30.177 –> 00:15:38.597
DAWN: So any season of transition within any organization, there’s no surprise that one of my favorite quotes is clarity is kindness, right?
00:15:38.617 –> 00:15:39.337
DAWN: Clear is kind.
00:15:39.737 –> 00:15:47.077
DAWN: So you’re living in a fog, there’s a swirl of confusion, information being cascaded and just being steady in that.
00:15:47.577 –> 00:15:52.817
DAWN: And just not contributing to office drama, not contributing to any gossip.
00:15:52.837 –> 00:15:57.397
DAWN: To just be steady is my biggest thing and to believe the best in others.
00:15:57.937 –> 00:16:00.477
DAWN: So to always be looking at, I believe the best.
00:16:00.497 –> 00:16:02.737
DAWN: Like, do I believe the best in these people?
00:16:02.757 –> 00:16:03.977
DAWN: Yes, I do.
00:16:04.777 –> 00:16:07.937
DAWN: And I believe, so if there’s any doubt, use your voice.
00:16:08.557 –> 00:16:13.257
DAWN: I think that’s one of the things that I would just say over and over, Jeremy, in an appropriate way.
00:16:13.277 –> 00:16:20.017
DAWN: Now, mind you, I’m not using my voice in the middle of an executive leadership team and banging my fist on a table and saying, hey, listen to me.
00:16:20.497 –> 00:16:22.157
DAWN: I’m finding the nuances.
00:16:22.177 –> 00:16:32.557
DAWN: There are nuances to being an EA and finding the nuance of, let me speak to my leader at the appropriate time in a private space.
00:16:32.917 –> 00:16:37.417
DAWN: I’m a big believer in criticism in private praise in public.
00:16:38.077 –> 00:16:45.737
DAWN: So not that we, and just to do what you say and always support publicly.
00:16:46.057 –> 00:16:48.977
DAWN: I really, I just always believe that.
00:16:51.337 –> 00:16:51.677
JEREMY: Nice.
00:16:51.697 –> 00:16:53.477
JEREMY: So then talk about burnout.
00:16:53.497 –> 00:17:00.657
JEREMY: What’s your story of burning out and how did you notice it?
00:17:00.697 –> 00:17:03.097
JEREMY: How did you come to that point?
00:17:03.857 –> 00:17:04.297
DAWN: Sure.
00:17:05.517 –> 00:17:22.617
DAWN: Yeah, it’s not an easy conversation, but I think it’s an important one, particularly as so many people are facing different challenges emotionally, and mental health is so critical, and to care for yourself.
00:17:22.937 –> 00:17:27.817
DAWN: So I was already in a season, I just shared with you, of transition.
00:17:27.837 –> 00:17:33.717
DAWN: So we had transition senior leaders, so think CEO changing for those without a ministry context, right?
00:17:33.917 –> 00:17:47.477
DAWN: So you have a large organization, you know, staff of over 300 people, which is definitely small in comparison to a lot of staff, but speaking for a church, that’s a large size, multiple campuses.
00:17:48.657 –> 00:17:55.157
DAWN: And I’m supporting the CEO, the senior pastor, the leader, and the growth was unbelievable.
00:17:55.177 –> 00:18:01.377
DAWN: And I had on running shoes, let’s just say I was running hard, there’s a lot going on.
00:18:02.017 –> 00:18:07.297
DAWN: And it’s, there’s a saying in ministry that Sunday comes, so Sunday comes every week.
00:18:07.857 –> 00:18:17.017
DAWN: So you’re, you know, if you’ve supported a speaker, if you’ve supported a leader who speaks, as well as leads, this is happening on a weekly basis, though.
00:18:17.497 –> 00:18:26.997
DAWN: So there’s all sorts of things you need to protect, you need to protect message prep times, but there’s sermons, I mean, there’s sermons coming out of that message.
00:18:27.017 –> 00:18:39.557
DAWN: But there’s also leadership, there’s just still organizational budget, management, leading people, development, and then bam, the shutdown starts to happen.
00:18:39.597 –> 00:18:45.577
DAWN: And there’s a giant swirl of, is this like, we literally said, oh, we’ll be back by Easter.
00:18:45.597 –> 00:18:50.177
DAWN: And I was like, in a couple of weeks, surely we’ll be back for Easter.
00:18:50.197 –> 00:18:55.597
DAWN: I was one of about five people that continued to go into the office.
00:18:56.097 –> 00:19:02.817
DAWN: I was telling my husband the other day that I remember driving down the local street, the local freeway, and there’s no one on it.
00:19:02.817 –> 00:19:06.377
DAWN: And I thought, do I need, I don’t know if any of you all are Indian ground people.
00:19:06.397 –> 00:19:09.337
DAWN: I’m a one, I’m a rule follower unless they don’t make sense.
00:19:09.617 –> 00:19:12.597
DAWN: So, but like perfectionism, all of that.
00:19:12.617 –> 00:19:14.337
DAWN: And I’m like, am I going to get pulled over?
00:19:14.357 –> 00:19:15.617
DAWN: Do I need a note in my car?
00:19:16.197 –> 00:19:22.997
DAWN: So leading through COVID, and I would say leading and running alongside of a leader during such a radical time.
00:19:23.457 –> 00:19:28.617
DAWN: Because if you recall, Jeremy, it wasn’t just COVID, we had racial issues.
00:19:29.657 –> 00:19:31.417
DAWN: We had political issues.
00:19:32.057 –> 00:19:36.817
DAWN: And we, where I was on staff was very neutral.
00:19:37.317 –> 00:19:43.477
DAWN: So respecting separation of government and state, and I really feel like we led well, but no one was happy.
00:19:43.697 –> 00:19:46.557
DAWN: And I was on the front line for those phone calls.
00:19:47.037 –> 00:19:53.457
DAWN: And I would literally get a phone call of someone really irate over one issue.
00:19:53.697 –> 00:19:57.737
DAWN: And then the next phone call or email was someone viscerally opposed.
00:19:58.637 –> 00:20:01.057
DAWN: In the same thing, though, I’m like, we can’t literally win.
00:20:01.077 –> 00:20:02.117
DAWN: We could not win.
00:20:02.497 –> 00:20:07.297
DAWN: So it was vaccine, no vaccine, like mask, no mask, inside, outside.
00:20:07.317 –> 00:20:18.577
DAWN: I think leading through all of that and not taking any time off and not, and being, and there was some bitterness that crept in.
00:20:18.737 –> 00:20:23.377
DAWN: If you remember social media at the time, people like, I’m cleaning my closet and I’m making bread.
00:20:23.397 –> 00:20:26.457
DAWN: I’m like, I’m afraid I’m going to come home and kill my family.
00:20:26.937 –> 00:20:29.977
DAWN: Like, early on, I’m like, I’m living in fear.
00:20:29.997 –> 00:20:30.997
DAWN: I’m going someplace.
00:20:31.017 –> 00:20:32.017
DAWN: I’m around people.
00:20:32.037 –> 00:20:37.877
DAWN: Am I going to come home and give them a virus that at this point we know nothing about?
00:20:37.897 –> 00:20:42.957
DAWN: And then as time moved on, it was, we needed to change, right?
00:20:42.977 –> 00:20:47.597
DAWN: So switch online, do kids ministry online, do, you know, high school ministry.
00:20:47.617 –> 00:20:49.777
DAWN: And then we need to just meet outside.
00:20:49.797 –> 00:20:58.877
DAWN: And well, we don’t really, you know, I joked if you’re familiar with any festivals, like Coachella or Stagecoach, I’m like, we now have Churchella.
00:21:00.157 –> 00:21:02.177
DAWN: So it was all outside.
00:21:02.217 –> 00:21:06.477
DAWN: So I was exhausted and I didn’t use my voice.
00:21:07.157 –> 00:21:12.077
DAWN: So again, I think that’s going to be a reoccurring theme in our conversation today, Jeremy.
00:21:12.457 –> 00:21:17.037
DAWN: And it makes me a little emotional because looking back at it, I support it phenomenal.
00:21:17.817 –> 00:21:19.177
DAWN: My leader was phenomenal.
00:21:19.237 –> 00:21:27.597
DAWN: And if I would have like a lot of EAs and maybe some of your listeners and maybe even you can resonate with this, I am a good soldier.
00:21:27.797 –> 00:21:33.157
DAWN: And what I mean by that is I just smile and I do the work and I keep moving through it.
00:21:33.677 –> 00:21:35.137
DAWN: And there’s a protection.
00:21:35.157 –> 00:21:43.177
DAWN: And I didn’t exercise my own self-care of, I think I need to take a little bit of time off.
00:21:43.977 –> 00:21:45.217
DAWN: I think I’m exhausted.
00:21:45.777 –> 00:21:47.357
DAWN: And it started to show.
00:21:47.417 –> 00:21:53.517
DAWN: And we stepped into a $50 million capital campaign that I mentioned that I was a key stakeholder of.
00:21:53.997 –> 00:21:58.717
DAWN: You know, I always joke, I’m like, Eric, it’s a great idea to do a capital campaign in the middle of a pandemic.
00:21:59.877 –> 00:22:01.317
DAWN: But you know what?
00:22:01.717 –> 00:22:02.677
DAWN: It actually went great.
00:22:02.717 –> 00:22:08.717
DAWN: So all joking aside, and I loved what I got to do, but it doesn’t mean it didn’t come at a cost.
00:22:09.057 –> 00:22:15.037
DAWN: And there came a time where I knew that I needed some time off desperately.
00:22:15.617 –> 00:22:22.017
DAWN: And, you know, there’s a lot of quotes about, people leave leaders, not jobs.
00:22:22.237 –> 00:22:23.157
DAWN: I left my job.
00:22:23.637 –> 00:22:24.637
DAWN: I didn’t leave my leader.
00:22:25.497 –> 00:22:28.737
DAWN: So I adore who I worked with.
00:22:28.737 –> 00:22:31.037
DAWN: We’re still close friends with his family.
00:22:31.057 –> 00:22:32.637
DAWN: I left my job.
00:22:32.657 –> 00:22:34.037
DAWN: I needed some time off.
00:22:34.497 –> 00:22:42.677
DAWN: And sadly, it had got to a place where I, when I say I needed some time off, I took time off.
00:22:42.697 –> 00:22:48.377
DAWN: I will be vulnerable with you and tell you that I am so grateful for my husband.
00:22:48.397 –> 00:22:50.457
DAWN: We weren’t living on our sailboat at the time.
00:22:50.477 –> 00:22:58.977
DAWN: And that man would come out of his office because he works remotely in sales and would see me curled up on the couch sleeping a lot.
00:22:59.417 –> 00:23:06.877
DAWN: So there was a literal period of, you know, there’s a saying, sometimes the most spiritual thing you can do is take a nap.
00:23:08.477 –> 00:23:11.417
DAWN: Like, I needed to nap, I needed to rest.
00:23:12.277 –> 00:23:14.557
DAWN: And I hold myself accountable for that, Jeremy.
00:23:15.037 –> 00:23:16.097
DAWN: I really didn’t.
00:23:16.977 –> 00:23:29.537
DAWN: There was a lot of duplicity in me being the soldier moving through and then just having a face that everything was fine until I could no longer do it.
00:23:30.257 –> 00:23:36.957
DAWN: And it even when I was asked to stay on, even when I was, you know, said, can you take some time off?
00:23:36.977 –> 00:23:41.037
DAWN: I said, I really actually I just need I need like a break, Rick.
00:23:41.437 –> 00:23:43.137
DAWN: And I took about six months off.
00:23:44.277 –> 00:23:46.937
DAWN: And I didn’t have the whole time, but I did for about a month.
00:23:47.417 –> 00:23:55.217
DAWN: I know that sounds nuts, like, and even when I say it to you, it seems very out of body to me because I’m like, wow, that was a gnarly time.
00:23:55.237 –> 00:23:57.437
DAWN: I thought a lot of counseling.
00:23:57.457 –> 00:23:59.597
DAWN: I took a lot of walks.
00:23:59.777 –> 00:24:01.037
DAWN: I got a golden doodle.
00:24:01.037 –> 00:24:03.797
DAWN: I’m telling you, pets are the best therapy, at least for me.
00:24:03.817 –> 00:24:09.317
DAWN: I really I love Dr.
00:24:09.337 –> 00:24:10.177
DAWN: Caroline Leaf.
00:24:10.237 –> 00:24:19.057
DAWN: I don’t know if you’re familiar with any of her stuff, but definitely really helped me during that time period, just her podcasts, different.
00:24:19.657 –> 00:24:22.297
DAWN: I sought a lot, a lot of yoga.
00:24:22.437 –> 00:24:30.657
DAWN: I just did a lot to care for myself in that time because I really I spent a lot of time with my friends and family and people that filled my cup.
00:24:31.457 –> 00:24:36.057
DAWN: So my encouragement to wrap that like is use your voice again.
00:24:36.077 –> 00:24:47.797
DAWN: And if you’re hitting that wall and it’s not about the hustle culture or, you know, whatever, it’s hard for me to keep up with what culture we’re in right now.
00:24:47.857 –> 00:24:51.217
DAWN: You know, it was hustle culture, no hustle culture.
00:24:53.577 –> 00:25:00.357
DAWN: I definitely just recommend that you, I should have paced myself and I would have been fine.
00:25:01.477 –> 00:25:02.357
DAWN: I really believe that.
00:25:02.597 –> 00:25:02.917
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:25:03.437 –> 00:25:11.677
JEREMY: And by pace, you mean regular days off, regular vacations, things like that, turning your phone off, those kinds of things.
00:25:12.117 –> 00:25:14.097
DAWN: I think that’s a great part.
00:25:14.737 –> 00:25:21.577
DAWN: I made myself a little bit too available and I had, I would say, you know, boundaries are like a rubber band.
00:25:21.717 –> 00:25:23.517
DAWN: I don’t think we should have hard boundaries.
00:25:23.537 –> 00:25:24.817
DAWN: I think they stretch, right?
00:25:24.837 –> 00:25:27.757
DAWN: Like a boundary stretches, then it goes back.
00:25:28.817 –> 00:25:32.217
DAWN: I think mine just stretched and broke.
00:25:32.237 –> 00:25:39.317
DAWN: And, you know, because this is a podcast, I want to be super clear that it was not really my direct boss that violated.
00:25:39.337 –> 00:25:48.397
DAWN: So when you become, the other thing I would say is allow people to do their jobs and don’t save everything.
00:25:49.297 –> 00:25:53.297
DAWN: So I found myself, and I think that’s harmful to an organization.
00:25:53.317 –> 00:25:54.577
DAWN: I don’t think that’s healthy leading.
00:25:55.197 –> 00:25:57.917
DAWN: I think I created harm, which is painful for me to say.
00:25:57.937 –> 00:26:04.917
DAWN: But if there was a ball being dropped, instead of letting it drop, I caught it, fixed it, moved on.
00:26:05.637 –> 00:26:09.217
DAWN: And so that’s not really healthy, right?
00:26:09.857 –> 00:26:18.917
DAWN: Have you heard the juggling balls analogy where we’re all juggling balls all day and some of them are rubber, one bounces, you pick it up, you move on.
00:26:19.477 –> 00:26:23.357
DAWN: We’re juggling, some of them are yarn balls, like knitting balls, it unravels.
00:26:23.417 –> 00:26:27.197
DAWN: It’s a little messier to clean up when you like pick it up.
00:26:27.217 –> 00:26:28.777
DAWN: And then some of them are crystal balls.
00:26:29.237 –> 00:26:31.217
DAWN: Like most things aren’t crystal balls, Jeremy.
00:26:34.417 –> 00:26:38.117
JEREMY: I talk about it in my books, like urgent is rarely urgent.
00:26:38.577 –> 00:26:46.077
JEREMY: And we try to convince ourselves or our executives try to convince us that this is urgent, this is urgent, this is urgent.
00:26:46.097 –> 00:26:48.317
JEREMY: Actually, it’s rarely the case.
00:26:49.197 –> 00:26:49.857
DAWN: Correct.
00:26:49.897 –> 00:26:50.197
DAWN: Yeah.
00:26:50.217 –> 00:26:55.297
DAWN: There’s that old Stephen Covey quadrants with the urgent and important and the fourth.
00:26:55.317 –> 00:27:09.577
DAWN: And like most things are important that are important, but like, I don’t know, I just have a different philosophy now coming out of, I would even call it like a detox of running really hard for about two decades.
00:27:11.317 –> 00:27:19.977
JEREMY: So do you think that part of it was, you know, you said you want to jump in and fix it yourself and whatever.
00:27:19.997 –> 00:27:21.817
JEREMY: Do you think it was like micromanagement?
00:27:21.817 –> 00:27:24.457
JEREMY: Do you think it was controlled?
00:27:24.477 –> 00:27:27.117
JEREMY: Do you think it was approval?
00:27:27.137 –> 00:27:28.857
JEREMY: Like you wanted people’s approval?
00:27:28.857 –> 00:27:31.837
JEREMY: Like what do you think was the underneath the surface there?
00:27:33.157 –> 00:27:35.477
DAWN: I’ve really had to peel back the layers on that one.
00:27:35.777 –> 00:27:41.237
DAWN: So that’s a lot of therapy right there because, you know, wherever we go, there we are.
00:27:42.297 –> 00:27:46.477
DAWN: So I don’t want to be that person in another environment, right?
00:27:46.937 –> 00:27:53.817
DAWN: So I think a lot of it was care of my colleagues, very honestly, and I want everyone to win.
00:27:54.317 –> 00:28:00.857
DAWN: Like, I literally want everyone to win, and I see how hard they’re working, and everybody’s juggling a lot.
00:28:00.877 –> 00:28:02.777
DAWN: Now, remember, this is during the pandemic.
00:28:02.877 –> 00:28:05.177
DAWN: So there is also confusion.
00:28:05.197 –> 00:28:09.457
DAWN: There’s world, like everything I just discussed that’s going on in the world.
00:28:09.617 –> 00:28:14.077
DAWN: And I think it was me not wanting my colleagues to fail.
00:28:14.117 –> 00:28:15.777
DAWN: I want everyone to win desperately.
00:28:16.237 –> 00:28:20.337
DAWN: Instead of just allowing natural, and it’s not, so it’s approval.
00:28:20.597 –> 00:28:23.837
DAWN: So the bottom line, though, when you peel away layers, it’s approval.
00:28:24.097 –> 00:28:25.357
DAWN: Like, I want approval.
00:28:25.357 –> 00:28:27.157
DAWN: I want other people to get approval.
00:28:27.177 –> 00:28:29.717
DAWN: I want we’re in a season of transition.
00:28:29.737 –> 00:28:30.937
DAWN: We have new leadership.
00:28:31.017 –> 00:28:33.017
DAWN: So I’m supporting that person.
00:28:33.037 –> 00:28:35.497
DAWN: I want everyone to look good to him.
00:28:36.157 –> 00:28:40.417
DAWN: When you work in a ministry context, too, these are my friends, Jeremy.
00:28:40.997 –> 00:28:43.677
DAWN: Like, this is not, I go to church with these people.
00:28:43.917 –> 00:28:47.557
DAWN: So I, you’re doing everything.
00:28:47.577 –> 00:28:49.117
DAWN: These are my best friends, too.
00:28:49.897 –> 00:28:51.057
DAWN: I love these people.
00:28:51.077 –> 00:28:53.137
DAWN: And I’m not, I guess you love people in all jobs.
00:28:53.157 –> 00:28:57.517
DAWN: But like, when I say I love them and I’m like, Oh, I also want to mom them and protect them.
00:28:57.537 –> 00:28:58.797
DAWN: I’m a little bit older.
00:28:59.157 –> 00:29:02.657
DAWN: So it’s like being, I work with a lot of younger millennials, Gen Z.
00:29:02.677 –> 00:29:06.077
DAWN: So I want to like also help them to win and succeed.
00:29:06.097 –> 00:29:09.257
DAWN: I didn’t really, sure.
00:29:09.277 –> 00:29:13.957
DAWN: In cases, it was helpful to my boss, right?
00:29:13.977 –> 00:29:18.997
DAWN: Like, I mean, but I’m not helping the organization move forward.
00:29:19.297 –> 00:29:23.637
DAWN: I’m not helping the health of people’s own development.
00:29:24.077 –> 00:29:25.777
DAWN: And it doesn’t have to be personal.
00:29:26.377 –> 00:29:27.777
DAWN: Like, that’s the thing, too.
00:29:27.797 –> 00:29:29.397
DAWN: It’s not personal, it’s work.
00:29:30.277 –> 00:29:31.877
JEREMY: Like, it’s job.
00:29:31.897 –> 00:29:32.897
JEREMY: You touched on it.
00:29:32.917 –> 00:29:38.717
JEREMY: Like, and I, you know, for those listening that don’t know, I worked in ministry for 12 years as well.
00:29:38.737 –> 00:29:42.677
JEREMY: And I was a pastor’s assistant for nine and a half years or whatever.
00:29:42.757 –> 00:29:49.857
JEREMY: And it’s just a whole, you know, you said, well, you know, I guess you can be really good friends and love your coworkers or whatever.
00:29:49.877 –> 00:29:50.517
JEREMY: That’s true.
00:29:50.517 –> 00:29:52.657
JEREMY: But it’s just a different dynamic.
00:29:52.837 –> 00:30:01.377
JEREMY: And it’s, you know, you’ve got your spiritual community, you’ve got your work community, you’ve got your friends in your neighborhood.
00:30:01.397 –> 00:30:03.697
JEREMY: Like, they’re all kind of in the same bucket.
00:30:03.897 –> 00:30:06.557
JEREMY: And so it can get a little confusing.
00:30:06.577 –> 00:30:27.017
JEREMY: But yeah, I think it’s, honestly, I think that it’s very common for assistants in ministry specifically to burn out because of what you described, which is like, Hey, I’m best friends with this person.
00:30:27.037 –> 00:30:28.097
JEREMY: I don’t want them to look bad.
00:30:28.117 –> 00:30:29.817
JEREMY: Or, you know, I’m trying to help them out.
00:30:29.817 –> 00:30:33.617
JEREMY: And but I’m also trying to do that, you know, and it’s like, Oh, my boss is my pastor, too.
00:30:33.637 –> 00:30:35.817
JEREMY: Like, that’s kind of a weird dynamic, if we’re honest.
00:30:36.457 –> 00:30:38.497
DAWN: 100%.
00:30:38.837 –> 00:30:43.077
DAWN: So like, if I have a theological question, like, who do I go to?
00:30:43.117 –> 00:30:49.957
DAWN: Or when we were going to renew our vows, my husband and I, I was like, Eric, I like, it’s kind of weird.
00:30:49.977 –> 00:30:51.257
DAWN: You’re my boss, too.
00:30:51.297 –> 00:30:53.057
DAWN: But you’re also my pastor.
00:30:53.217 –> 00:30:55.397
DAWN: And like I said, I’ve been fortunate.
00:30:55.417 –> 00:30:57.357
DAWN: I know there’s a lot in headlines and things.
00:30:57.377 –> 00:31:09.577
DAWN: I just consider myself privileged and fortunate that I have worked for absolutely spectacular people in every single one of my, even my first person, Lance Witt, that tapped me on the shoulder.
00:31:09.897 –> 00:31:11.777
DAWN: We’re still close friends to this day.
00:31:11.797 –> 00:31:16.917
DAWN: And very gentle, very kind, very gracious.
00:31:17.357 –> 00:31:20.977
DAWN: Like, I just feel fortunate because I know that it doesn’t always look like that.
00:31:21.737 –> 00:31:24.417
DAWN: And especially in like a pastor situation.
00:31:24.437 –> 00:31:26.197
JEREMY: Totally.
00:31:26.897 –> 00:31:28.057
JEREMY: So what’s OK?
00:31:28.077 –> 00:31:30.137
JEREMY: You talked about napping, which I totally think.
00:31:32.297 –> 00:31:35.917
JEREMY: When my boss got fired and I kind of was like, you know what, I’m just going to leave the organization.
00:31:35.937 –> 00:31:37.937
JEREMY: It’s time to rip the bandaid off and start over.
00:31:37.957 –> 00:31:47.477
JEREMY: And I sold my house and we I didn’t I didn’t get a real job, quote unquote, for like seven, eight months after that.
00:31:48.157 –> 00:32:05.577
JEREMY: But what was maybe practically maybe after that first month of just literally you’re physically and emotionally just kind of your body, because the adrenaline, you just crash and you just need to recover after that and coming back into, you know, the real world, if you will.
00:32:06.177 –> 00:32:17.537
JEREMY: What’s been what’s been maybe helpful for you to, you know, in that recovery, but also in that, you know, idea of resisting going forward, resisting burnout going forward?
00:32:17.557 –> 00:32:19.957
DAWN: Yeah, it’s a great question.
00:32:19.977 –> 00:32:31.077
DAWN: So one of the things is refusing to compromise on certain things, even if I want to, meaning I have self boundaries.
00:32:31.537 –> 00:32:34.477
DAWN: So because, like I said, no one else created those issues.
00:32:34.617 –> 00:32:44.237
DAWN: I am not here to like, I really am a big believer in being responsible for your own behavior, you know, examining what part did I play in this?
00:32:44.257 –> 00:32:46.057
DAWN: What part did someone else play in this?
00:32:46.757 –> 00:32:49.917
DAWN: And in looking back, I was the one that didn’t speak up.
00:32:50.337 –> 00:32:54.377
DAWN: So moving forward, it is about creating a balance.
00:32:55.377 –> 00:32:59.337
DAWN: And I started to put my big toe back in.
00:32:59.357 –> 00:33:05.597
DAWN: I did a little bit of contract work for a nonprofit that was looking for some donor relationship.
00:33:05.917 –> 00:33:09.077
DAWN: So really putting like just your toe back in the water.
00:33:09.477 –> 00:33:13.657
DAWN: And that was probably like the interesting, almost the same exact timeline.
00:33:13.677 –> 00:33:16.297
DAWN: That was about five months in to it.
00:33:16.497 –> 00:33:18.757
DAWN: And I took savings out to live.
00:33:18.817 –> 00:33:25.217
DAWN: Like you said, like there’s just certain things that you need to do where I was like, yeah, I need this time in order to grow.
00:33:25.237 –> 00:33:31.197
DAWN: And then even recently, I’ve been working on contract for an amazing nonprofit organization.
00:33:31.217 –> 00:33:33.857
DAWN: And there was a health situation that was in my family.
00:33:33.877 –> 00:33:38.537
DAWN: And I made a decision to leave something and come back and be with my family.
00:33:39.477 –> 00:33:44.997
DAWN: So that’s a boundary that I was like, no, I find it fascinating that I worked somewhere for eight years.
00:33:45.017 –> 00:33:51.317
DAWN: I said no to countless things that were super important that I never even raised the question if I could go.
00:33:51.957 –> 00:33:56.757
DAWN: And I had an opportunity recently with a health crisis in my family to show up.
00:33:57.177 –> 00:34:00.097
DAWN: And I had to leave something and I just looked at and guess what?
00:34:00.117 –> 00:34:01.477
DAWN: It was like, oh, my gosh, of course.
00:34:02.157 –> 00:34:02.417
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:34:03.857 –> 00:34:14.577
DAWN: Like, so I think practically speaking, as you’re asking, is to really have those own boundaries, to have that reset for myself of I can’t go back to being that person.
00:34:14.597 –> 00:34:21.957
DAWN: That’s just, yes, always that is rescuing everyone, that there’s a level of professionalism.
00:34:22.797 –> 00:34:29.137
DAWN: I actually will use that word of not intertwining everything in my life.
00:34:31.337 –> 00:34:35.117
DAWN: Of not stepping back into things that way.
00:34:35.137 –> 00:34:43.557
DAWN: And it doesn’t mean I don’t love hard because I am a hard lover and a hard like I’m a passionate fun and I want to be an amazing friend.
00:34:43.577 –> 00:34:47.057
DAWN: I also had to go on an apology tour, Jeremy, speaking of friends.
00:34:47.397 –> 00:34:50.697
DAWN: Like I had to go to my friends outside of work and go, I’m sorry.
00:34:51.557 –> 00:34:52.777
DAWN: I wasn’t there for you.
00:34:52.797 –> 00:34:54.637
DAWN: I had to apologize to family.
00:34:55.217 –> 00:35:02.477
DAWN: So that is another practical thing of just being accountable for my own stuff, just to make sure.
00:35:02.757 –> 00:35:08.557
DAWN: Like, and I make the time to work out for me.
00:35:08.577 –> 00:35:09.597
DAWN: I love to walk.
00:35:09.617 –> 00:35:11.237
DAWN: We live in a beautiful area.
00:35:11.357 –> 00:35:12.917
DAWN: It’s gorgeous outside.
00:35:13.017 –> 00:35:21.997
DAWN: So I set some boundaries for myself with that, that am I practicing the disciplines that help me to maintain my health?
00:35:22.917 –> 00:35:27.717
DAWN: If you’ve ever been like burnout is thrown around a little bit.
00:35:28.617 –> 00:35:33.197
DAWN: I’m talking about, like, I consider, do I need to go into a facility?
00:35:33.497 –> 00:35:34.577
DAWN: Am I OK?
00:35:34.817 –> 00:35:38.057
DAWN: Like, I’m not talking about just like I was a little tired.
00:35:38.417 –> 00:35:41.437
DAWN: I’m talking about I was like, I’m not OK.
00:35:42.257 –> 00:35:44.777
DAWN: Like, I am about to crack open.
00:35:46.417 –> 00:35:48.877
DAWN: Like, and I can’t be the only person, right?
00:35:48.957 –> 00:35:56.857
DAWN: So I’m being very vulnerable with you because I think it’s an important story, not just mine, but like, sometimes you’re not OK.
00:35:57.657 –> 00:36:00.337
DAWN: And you need to like I was like, I am not OK.
00:36:01.137 –> 00:36:08.357
DAWN: And there’s a lot of things that led me to that place of self-realization and self-actualization on that.
00:36:09.377 –> 00:36:12.237
DAWN: I wasn’t showing up well to my friends and family.
00:36:13.237 –> 00:36:16.057
DAWN: And when your adult kids start saying, are you OK?
00:36:17.537 –> 00:36:19.837
DAWN: I mean, you’re going to have clues, people.
00:36:20.057 –> 00:36:22.737
DAWN: Like it didn’t just happen overnight.
00:36:22.777 –> 00:36:25.457
DAWN: I didn’t wake up one day and go, I think I’m a little tired.
00:36:25.677 –> 00:36:28.457
DAWN: So I’m going to quit my eight year job that I love a lot.
00:36:28.817 –> 00:36:29.177
JEREMY: Right.
00:36:29.977 –> 00:36:31.097
JEREMY: And I talk about that.
00:36:31.497 –> 00:36:35.757
JEREMY: The signs of burnout and how it creeps up on us.
00:36:36.257 –> 00:36:38.337
JEREMY: It’s not like you said, it’s not overnight thing.
00:36:39.037 –> 00:36:39.377
DAWN: No.
00:36:40.877 –> 00:36:46.677
JEREMY: Well, Dawn, thank you so much for sharing your story and opening up to us.
00:36:46.797 –> 00:36:48.857
JEREMY: I really appreciate you spending the time.
00:36:48.877 –> 00:37:00.717
JEREMY: And I know that we have a lot of similar milestones, if you will, in our story and working in ministry and burning out and all the things.
00:37:02.057 –> 00:37:03.537
JEREMY: I’m not living on a sailboat yet.
00:37:04.837 –> 00:37:08.337
JEREMY: I’m not really a good swimmer, so I don’t know if that’d be a great idea, but…
00:37:09.437 –> 00:37:10.497
DAWN: Here’s a little clue.
00:37:10.517 –> 00:37:11.477
DAWN: I’m afraid of sharks.
00:37:12.337 –> 00:37:13.037
JEREMY: Oh, there you go.
00:37:13.217 –> 00:37:13.777
JEREMY: There you go.
00:37:13.897 –> 00:37:15.757
DAWN: But you never know, Jeremy.
00:37:16.717 –> 00:37:20.137
JEREMY: What’s the best place for people to reach out if they want to connect and say hi?
00:37:20.837 –> 00:37:27.637
DAWN: Oh, I would love to connect with any one of your listeners and anyone that this story resonated with and help in any way possible.
00:37:27.657 –> 00:37:30.777
DAWN: Currently, I have the amazing privilege and honor.
00:37:30.797 –> 00:37:45.237
DAWN: I actually work with churches and lead and senior pastors and coach executive assistants as well as their leader, because you would know and your listeners will know that if there’s not that synergy and that unity between the two, then it’s not going to work.
00:37:45.477 –> 00:37:46.637
DAWN: So you can reach me at…
00:37:46.657 –> 00:37:52.097
DAWN: Wow, I forgot my own website at executiveassistantdawn.com.
00:37:52.297 –> 00:37:58.277
DAWN: So just executiveassistantdawn.com, and there’s a button you can click there, and I would love to connect.
00:37:58.717 –> 00:38:00.337
DAWN: Dawn Marraccino on LinkedIn.
00:38:01.357 –> 00:38:02.297
DAWN: So thank you, Jeremy.
00:38:02.317 –> 00:38:03.597
DAWN: Seriously, you’re a joy.
00:38:03.617 –> 00:38:08.337
DAWN: And I have loved watching just everything that you’ve done over the years.
00:38:08.777 –> 00:38:15.117
DAWN: So I appreciate you so much and the community and the voice that you have created for EAs to be Leader Assistants.
00:38:16.437 –> 00:38:16.837
JEREMY: Awesome.
00:38:16.857 –> 00:38:24.977
JEREMY: Thank you, Dawn, for the kind words, and we’ll definitely put your contact links in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/278.
00:38:25.517 –> 00:38:31.817
JEREMY: Thanks again for taking time, and we’ll look forward to going on a boat ride someday.
00:38:32.457 –> 00:38:33.137
DAWN: Come on.
00:38:33.317 –> 00:38:33.837
DAWN: We’re here.
00:38:35.237 –> 00:38:35.917
DAWN: Thanks, Jeremy.
00:38:46.718 –> 00:38:49.238
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