Vitale Buford Hardin, leading expert in Perfectionism and how it permeates corporate culture and individual performance, is the President and CEO of The Hardin Group.
In this episode, Vitale talks about overcoming perfectionism and how to work with perfectionists.
LEADERSHIP QUOTE
Your ability to lead others reflects your ability to lead yourself.
CONNECT WITH VITALE
- Vitale on LinkedIn
- thehardingroup.co/
- Vitale’s book – Addicted to Perfect
ABOUT VITALE
Vitale Buford Hardin, leading expert in Perfectionism and how it permeates corporate culture and individual performance, is the President and CEO of The Hardin Group. Vitale works with organizations and leaders to transform perfectionism into excellence. She has served clients including Keeneland, Humana, NCAA, Zappos, LifePoint Health, Logan Aluminum and the University of Kentucky with a focus on leadership and overcoming perfectionism.
Having led two University studies focused on perfectionism in the workplace, Vitale is a true pioneer of thought leadership in this space. This study Revealed that 85% of workplaces have cultures of perfectionism as well as 86% of leaders in these workplaces seeing their work affected by perfectionism, further solidifying perfectionism as a crucial topic to be addressed in every work environment.
Throughout Vitale’s life, she has overcome struggles with perfectionism and addiction which propelled her to becoming a published author, nationally recognized speaker and iPEC-certified executive coach. She brings 15 years of corporate experience to her custom trainings, strategic advisory, culture change initiatives and performance coaching.Vitale’s proprietary program equips her clients with the tools to turn the volume down on perfectionism and learn to lead with authenticity and excellence, build resilience, improve communication and emotional intelligence.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00.000 –> 00:00:07.520
VITALE: I’m Vitale Buford Hardin, and one of my favorite quotes is, Your ability to lead others is a reflection of your ability to lead yourself..
00:00:13.678 –> 00:00:21.278
<v SPEAKER_3>The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.
00:00:29.266 –> 00:00:36.266
JEREMY: Calling all Executive Assistants, are you looking for a way to elevate your skills or earn that promotion you’ve been eyeing?
00:00:37.146 –> 00:00:44.826
JEREMY: Nova Chief of Staff’s Online Certification Course provides you with the knowledge and confidence you need to stand out on the job.
00:00:45.506 –> 00:00:59.266
JEREMY: Whether you want to land your dream position or level up in your current role, Nova’s Self-Paced Course gives you hands-on practice doing what Chiefs of Staff do every day.
00:00:59.966 –> 00:01:06.146
JEREMY: Visit leaderassistant.com/nova to learn more and secure your spot.
00:01:06.746 –> 00:01:11.286
JEREMY: That’s leaderassistant.com/nova.
00:01:12.106 –> 00:01:14.446
JEREMY: Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast.
00:01:14.466 –> 00:01:17.806
JEREMY: It’s episode 258 and I’m your host Jeremy Burrows.
00:01:18.026 –> 00:01:30.746
JEREMY: And if you want to check out the show notes for today’s episode and today’s conversation, you can go to leaderassistant.com/258, leaderassistant.com/258.
00:01:31.226 –> 00:01:35.426
JEREMY: So today we are going to be talking about perfectionism.
00:01:36.246 –> 00:01:46.966
JEREMY: And with me today to chat about this interesting topic that I’ve talked with assistants about plenty of times is Vitale Hardin.
00:01:47.066 –> 00:01:48.886
JEREMY: Vitale, welcome to the show.
00:01:49.666 –> 00:01:50.786
VITALE: Thank you for having me, Jeremy.
00:01:51.626 –> 00:01:52.906
JEREMY: And what part of the world are you in?
00:01:53.626 –> 00:01:54.906
VITALE: I am in Kentucky.
00:01:55.386 –> 00:01:56.766
VITALE: So mid-America.
00:01:57.546 –> 00:01:57.946
JEREMY: Love it.
00:01:58.006 –> 00:01:58.346
JEREMY: Love it.
00:01:58.386 –> 00:01:59.566
JEREMY: I’m in Kansas City, Missouri.
00:01:59.586 –> 00:02:02.186
JEREMY: So mid-America as well.
00:02:02.646 –> 00:02:05.266
JEREMY: So super glad to have you today.
00:02:05.286 –> 00:02:07.046
JEREMY: Tell us a little bit about you personally.
00:02:07.066 –> 00:02:08.786
JEREMY: Do you have a favorite hobby?
00:02:08.806 –> 00:02:11.186
JEREMY: Do you have a favorite Netflix show?
00:02:11.206 –> 00:02:16.106
JEREMY: Do you have a favorite, you know, meal, perfect meal?
00:02:16.766 –> 00:02:17.346
VITALE: Yeah, sure.
00:02:18.406 –> 00:02:24.306
VITALE: Well, I would say my hobby is parenting right now, not hobby, but my full-time job.
00:02:24.326 –> 00:02:27.046
VITALE: I have a six-month-old at home and a 12-year-old.
00:02:27.066 –> 00:02:31.706
VITALE: And so that consumes my time outside of running a business.
00:02:32.346 –> 00:02:36.186
VITALE: And my favorite show, Tried and True, is Law and Order SVU.
00:02:36.206 –> 00:02:39.506
VITALE: And no judgment.
00:02:39.526 –> 00:02:42.066
VITALE: I’ve been watching it for probably 15 years now.
00:02:44.766 –> 00:02:47.226
VITALE: And that’s what I like to watch when I’m trying to turn my brain off.
00:02:48.106 –> 00:02:48.486
JEREMY: Nice.
00:02:49.306 –> 00:02:53.326
JEREMY: And six, you said six months and 12 years, is that right?
00:02:53.706 –> 00:02:54.046
VITALE: Yep.
00:02:54.406 –> 00:02:55.146
JEREMY: Quite the spread.
00:02:55.346 –> 00:02:55.886
JEREMY: Quite the spread.
00:02:55.906 –> 00:02:56.586
VITALE: Yes.
00:02:56.606 –> 00:03:02.046
VITALE: The 12-year-old is adopted and the six-month-old is our first biologic baby.
00:03:02.286 –> 00:03:02.666
JEREMY: Awesome.
00:03:03.386 –> 00:03:23.346
JEREMY: Well, we’re super excited to jump in today, but why don’t you tell us a little bit about your career and, you know, how you ended up working with people and working with teams and companies to help them, yeah, with perfectionism and turning perfectionism into a positive and all the things.
00:03:23.366 –> 00:03:28.186
JEREMY: So, give us a little bit of a summary of your career and how it led you to where you’re at now.
00:03:29.146 –> 00:03:37.246
VITALE: So, you know, what I really work on is helping people let go of their perfectionism and instead of being a leader of perfectionism, be a leader of excellence.
00:03:37.386 –> 00:03:40.406
VITALE: But it was actually a pain point for me, Jeremy.
00:03:40.426 –> 00:03:43.846
VITALE: So, I feel like I turned my pain into my purpose and that’s kind of a corny quote.
00:03:43.866 –> 00:03:48.806
VITALE: But perfectionism really held me back for, I would say, 35 years of my life.
00:03:49.846 –> 00:03:53.866
VITALE: And I’m 41 now, but it showed up in so many different ways.
00:03:53.886 –> 00:03:59.766
VITALE: You know, I used to work at large law firms and I led their marketing, business development and client development teams.
00:04:00.606 –> 00:04:03.306
VITALE: And law firms can be highly perfectionist environments.
00:04:03.566 –> 00:04:05.826
VITALE: And there were also things going on with me in the background.
00:04:06.126 –> 00:04:09.326
VITALE: So from age 21 to 31, I was addicted to Adderall.
00:04:10.046 –> 00:04:14.466
VITALE: And so I was addicted to Adderall because it allowed me to be what I thought was perfect, right?
00:04:14.486 –> 00:04:16.166
VITALE: Really thin without trying.
00:04:16.486 –> 00:04:30.486
VITALE: I could work these like 28-hour days and, you know, have this perfect career, make sure I make everyone happy and get all of my worth from my career and making those professionally around me just happy.
00:04:32.186 –> 00:04:36.226
VITALE: And so when I was 31, I decided, you know, I can’t live this way anymore.
00:04:36.246 –> 00:04:37.126
VITALE: And so I got sober.
00:04:38.106 –> 00:04:45.386
VITALE: And as most of us do, we have a major life and a life event, maybe a health scare, death, divorce, relationship change, getting sober.
00:04:45.746 –> 00:04:47.886
VITALE: We have this opportunity to be introspective.
00:04:48.506 –> 00:04:50.786
VITALE: And so I looked inward and I was like, you know what?
00:04:50.806 –> 00:04:54.766
VITALE: This has nothing to do with my addiction to Adderall and everything to do with my addiction to perfection.
00:04:55.566 –> 00:04:58.466
VITALE: And so I started really looking into perfectionism, right?
00:04:58.486 –> 00:05:01.806
VITALE: Researching it, creating content around it, interviewing people about it.
00:05:01.826 –> 00:05:09.206
VITALE: And I realized it was a really big issue that no one was talking about because society has actually been telling us to be perfect for so long.
00:05:10.006 –> 00:05:10.966
VITALE: And it’s killing us.
00:05:11.646 –> 00:05:16.566
VITALE: And so I did two national research studies on the impact of perfectionism in the workplace.
00:05:16.606 –> 00:05:17.706
VITALE: I wrote my memoir.
00:05:17.726 –> 00:05:22.606
VITALE: I’m currently writing my first kind of how to fix perfectionism in the workplace book right now.
00:05:23.406 –> 00:05:33.326
VITALE: And that’s why I do what I do, because I believe that when you can really fix the perfectionism problem within ourselves as leaders, but also culturally, it really changes the game.
00:05:35.746 –> 00:05:39.206
JEREMY: So, yeah, thank you for sharing your story.
00:05:39.226 –> 00:05:42.626
JEREMY: So, you know, I work with executive assistants.
00:05:42.646 –> 00:05:44.086
JEREMY: I am an executive assistant.
00:05:45.366 –> 00:05:55.306
JEREMY: Do you have, you know, before we dive into some of the practical tips and wisdom on what you’ve learned as far as perfectionism and overcoming it?
00:05:56.466 –> 00:05:58.546
JEREMY: Do you have any experience working with assistants?
00:05:59.086 –> 00:06:01.286
JEREMY: Did you interact with assistants?
00:06:01.926 –> 00:06:07.386
JEREMY: You know, any stories, anything in the assistant world throughout your career?
00:06:07.906 –> 00:06:09.026
VITALE: Yeah, well, most definitely.
00:06:09.046 –> 00:06:12.026
VITALE: And I’ve done presentations and trainings for assistants, too.
00:06:12.146 –> 00:06:12.466
VITALE: Right.
00:06:12.486 –> 00:06:21.146
VITALE: So I would say that in my experience, the perfectionism symptoms I think resonate the most with assistants would be people-pleasing.
00:06:21.646 –> 00:06:21.986
VITALE: Right.
00:06:22.326 –> 00:06:24.146
VITALE: Constantly seeking approval.
00:06:24.566 –> 00:06:27.246
VITALE: Maybe that fear of lack of delegation.
00:06:27.246 –> 00:06:27.506
VITALE: Right.
00:06:27.526 –> 00:06:28.906
VITALE: Because we’re supposed to get it all done.
00:06:30.506 –> 00:06:31.966
VITALE: Procrastination at times.
00:06:32.166 –> 00:06:34.946
VITALE: We procrastinate because we’re so afraid it’s not going to be perfect enough.
00:06:35.386 –> 00:06:35.686
VITALE: Right.
00:06:35.926 –> 00:06:38.826
VITALE: Starting that project, drafting that email, whatever it is.
00:06:38.846 –> 00:06:43.146
VITALE: And so we actually put things off and carry around anxiety because of perfectionism.
00:06:43.666 –> 00:06:47.206
VITALE: But I would say that people-pleasing peace probably really falls in there a lot.
00:06:47.546 –> 00:06:49.766
VITALE: And then also, you know, conflict avoidance.
00:06:50.706 –> 00:06:57.946
VITALE: Assistance avoid having that difficult conversation with colleagues or the person that they report to just for fear of rejection, upsetting someone.
00:06:58.026 –> 00:06:59.706
VITALE: We can’t control other people.
00:06:59.726 –> 00:07:09.686
VITALE: And so there’s so many symptoms of perfectionism, but I completely see and as I’ve talked to them and also trained them of how it really can hold them back.
00:07:09.706 –> 00:07:12.106
VITALE: And so when they can let that go, it can be really powerful.
00:07:13.566 –> 00:07:21.606
JEREMY: Yeah, it’s very on par and in alignment with, you know, the when I talk about detaching our worth from our work.
00:07:22.726 –> 00:07:35.086
JEREMY: And, you know, it’s unfortunately, there’s this dynamic, exciting relationship, but also unfortunately, a toxic relationship when it comes to executives that are power driven and then assistants who are approval driven.
00:07:35.606 –> 00:07:39.926
JEREMY: And so it just feeds like feeds our idols both sides.
00:07:40.206 –> 00:07:48.326
JEREMY: And it’s like the executives are like, oh, I see that they want my approval so I can get more power over them and manipulate them to get what I want.
00:07:49.306 –> 00:07:53.546
JEREMY: And then the assistants are like, oh, you know, I really want their approval.
00:07:53.586 –> 00:07:55.166
JEREMY: And so I’m going to do whatever it takes.
00:07:56.406 –> 00:08:00.886
JEREMY: You know, I sacrifice my energy and my health and my sanity.
00:08:01.206 –> 00:08:09.886
JEREMY: So what what would you say is maybe one or two tips for those who are listening?
00:08:09.906 –> 00:08:13.546
JEREMY: They’re like, oh, my gosh, this is this is definitely me.
00:08:13.546 –> 00:08:17.586
JEREMY: Like, I am a perfectionist and I don’t know how to stop.
00:08:19.086 –> 00:08:20.066
VITALE: So I’ll give some tips.
00:08:20.506 –> 00:08:28.326
VITALE: But first, it’s really about really self-identifying and understanding like what the cost of their perfectionism is to them.
00:08:29.306 –> 00:08:30.366
VITALE: Like, what does that cost?
00:08:30.386 –> 00:08:35.006
VITALE: How is it holding them back from really stepping into what they’re fully capable of?
00:08:35.566 –> 00:08:40.226
VITALE: And so it’s really so what I’ve done, Jeremy, is I created two types of perfectionism.
00:08:40.326 –> 00:08:42.226
VITALE: So they’re slow and they’re as fast.
00:08:42.786 –> 00:08:46.226
VITALE: So slow perfectionism is the kind of perfectionism that keeps you stuck.
00:08:46.466 –> 00:08:50.666
VITALE: So I want you to think about procrastination, imposter syndrome, right?
00:08:50.686 –> 00:08:56.666
VITALE: Not feeling good enough, maybe not sharing brilliant ideas that would help something be an idea be even better, right?
00:08:56.686 –> 00:08:58.406
VITALE: Or help their leader be even better.
00:08:59.346 –> 00:09:04.406
VITALE: Conflict avoidance, not delegating, fear of failure, fear of making a mistake.
00:09:04.426 –> 00:09:06.426
VITALE: So slow perfectionism keeps you stuck.
00:09:07.066 –> 00:09:10.246
VITALE: Then on the other end of the spectrum is fast perfectionism, right?
00:09:10.266 –> 00:09:17.746
VITALE: Fast perfectionism is that workaholism, unrealistic expectations, chronic multitasking, the go-go-go, always saying yes.
00:09:19.686 –> 00:09:22.226
VITALE: So we can see how this is showing up for assistance, right?
00:09:22.246 –> 00:09:26.626
VITALE: They’re probably a hybrid of both slow and fast in different ways.
00:09:26.946 –> 00:09:33.766
VITALE: And so first it’s listening to those two types and saying like, wow, and then really emotionally connecting to what it’s costing you, right?
00:09:33.786 –> 00:09:38.366
VITALE: Is it costing you your emotional health, your physical health, joy, being present, sleep?
00:09:38.746 –> 00:09:40.066
VITALE: So first it’s that connecting.
00:09:40.646 –> 00:09:46.866
VITALE: Then there are some tools in terms of just really starting to switch your mindset from one of perfection to excellence.
00:09:46.886 –> 00:09:50.906
VITALE: So one of my favorite tools is going from what if thinking to even if thinking.
00:09:52.206 –> 00:09:59.186
VITALE: So what I mean by that is, you know, as perfectionists, control freaks, we can really get into that what if mindset, right?
00:09:59.206 –> 00:10:04.526
VITALE: If something goes wrong, we’re like, oh my gosh, what if that person quits and what if I don’t meet that deadline?
00:10:04.546 –> 00:10:06.646
VITALE: And what if my son doesn’t make the soccer team?
00:10:06.666 –> 00:10:08.086
VITALE: And what if, what if, what if?
00:10:09.206 –> 00:10:16.826
VITALE: And we just kind of stay stuck in this kind of anxious ball, this ball of anxiety where we’re kind of stuck in the problem.
00:10:17.946 –> 00:10:20.906
VITALE: And so instead, we need to move to even if, right?
00:10:21.246 –> 00:10:28.106
VITALE: Even if I don’t meet that deadline, it gives me an opportunity to kind of revisit my approach and come up with a new creative strategy moving forward.
00:10:28.966 –> 00:10:35.386
VITALE: Even if that other colleague quits, it gives us an opportunity to kind of maybe reassign roles and responsibilities.
00:10:36.206 –> 00:10:38.846
VITALE: Even if my son doesn’t make the soccer team, it’s going to be okay.
00:10:39.946 –> 00:10:44.226
VITALE: So it’s really just to help your mind move from being stuck in the problem to moving to the solution.
00:10:45.126 –> 00:10:49.306
VITALE: And so it’s just an easy way of going from what if to even if.
00:10:51.646 –> 00:10:53.306
VITALE: So that’s one of the simple mindset tools.
00:10:55.506 –> 00:10:58.766
VITALE: Another one is going from this idea of work-life balance to priorities.
00:10:59.986 –> 00:11:02.506
VITALE: So work-life balance is a bunch of nonsense.
00:11:02.886 –> 00:11:06.026
VITALE: And I don’t believe in it, so let’s just throw that term out.
00:11:06.046 –> 00:11:08.906
VITALE: If you need another term, feel free to go with work-life boundaries.
00:11:09.746 –> 00:11:12.266
VITALE: But work-life balance says we have to be everything to everyone.
00:11:12.286 –> 00:11:20.666
VITALE: And so especially for our approval seekers in the house, we’re going to be on this hamster wheel trying to achieve work-life balance, which is unachievable.
00:11:21.286 –> 00:11:28.226
VITALE: The reason that there are 14,000 podcasts and webinars and conferences on how to achieve work-life balance is because it’s unachievable.
00:11:29.266 –> 00:11:32.926
VITALE: If it was achievable, you’d have one conference, you’d learn the tools and you’d move on.
00:11:33.706 –> 00:11:35.806
VITALE: So it would be really simple.
00:11:36.606 –> 00:11:42.606
VITALE: So instead, it’s like looking at their life and priorities because work-life balance takes you out of the present moment.
00:11:42.786 –> 00:11:45.246
VITALE: You’re with your family and you feel guilty that you’re not working.
00:11:45.766 –> 00:11:48.086
VITALE: You’re at work and you feel guilty that you’re not with your family.
00:11:49.126 –> 00:11:50.526
VITALE: So you’re never where your feet are.
00:11:51.386 –> 00:11:52.966
VITALE: Perfectionism steals that from you.
00:11:52.986 –> 00:11:58.726
VITALE: It steals the present moment because you’re always on to the next and this kind of domino effect that it creates.
00:11:58.746 –> 00:12:10.806
VITALE: So instead, it’s looking at your life in terms of priorities, allowing your life to shift, not trying to be number one parent every single day of the week or number one assistant every single day of the week, but really prioritizing.
00:12:11.486 –> 00:12:20.546
VITALE: You need to work late on Tuesday night to get a bunch of projects done, but on the weekend, you’re not even going to think about work because your priority is a soccer tournament and date night, for example.
00:12:21.206 –> 00:12:23.066
VITALE: So just allowing yourself to shift.
00:12:23.086 –> 00:12:32.406
VITALE: So instead of trying to be everything to everyone all the time, under this false guise of work-life balance, really looking at your life in priorities.
00:12:35.826 –> 00:12:42.866
JEREMY: So then, what about, like, trying to think of how to frame this.
00:12:42.886 –> 00:13:10.346
JEREMY: So being vulnerable as an assistant, and it’s very intimidating to do so because it’s like, well, our job is to hold everything together and not lose our cool, and our job is to keep our executives who are, you know, the ones that are running around like chickens with their heads cut off sometimes, and we’re trying to keep them level headed.
00:13:12.346 –> 00:13:40.326
JEREMY: But how can we express that we are, you know, wrestling with perfectionism or how can we be vulnerable with our executives and our colleagues and trying to at least, you know, identify it and move on without feeling that sense of, oh, if I admit this, then I’m admitting that I’m failing.
00:13:45.306 –> 00:13:46.226
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00:13:46.526 –> 00:13:49.026
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00:13:49.466 –> 00:13:57.146
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00:13:57.626 –> 00:13:58.826
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00:13:59.366 –> 00:14:06.906
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00:14:24.746 –> 00:14:29.106
<v SPEAKER_4>Learn more about what Nova can do for you at leaderassistant.com/nova.
00:14:33.086 –> 00:14:35.026
VITALE: Yeah, so it takes courage.
00:14:35.146 –> 00:14:44.486
VITALE: But one of the things as it relates to that, how perfectionism shows up, is when assistants set people-pleasing deadlines instead of realistic deadlines.
00:14:45.186 –> 00:14:49.026
VITALE: So think about the last time you were in a meeting and they’re like, oh, when can you get that to us by?
00:14:49.026 –> 00:14:51.086
VITALE: And you’re like, oh, I’ll get it to you end of week.
00:14:51.486 –> 00:15:01.586
VITALE: And then you’re reeling inside your head because you’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve got eight other projects that are priorities for my executive, and I just promised this other project by Friday.
00:15:02.286 –> 00:15:05.006
VITALE: So instead of doing that, it’s about pausing, right?
00:15:05.026 –> 00:15:08.886
VITALE: And saying, hey, I love that you want to make this project a priority.
00:15:09.466 –> 00:15:12.746
VITALE: Realistically, I can get that to you next week.
00:15:13.406 –> 00:15:19.566
VITALE: If you want it sooner, let me show you all the other projects I’m working on, and I’m happy to shift, but I just need guidance from you.
00:15:20.506 –> 00:15:31.446
VITALE: So I think it’s really just about prioritizing your mental health and well-being and being willing to say, not that I can’t handle it all, but we need to prioritize here.
00:15:31.466 –> 00:15:39.326
VITALE: So even that can be scary for a perfectionist to be like, hold on, realistically, I can get this to you next week.
00:15:39.986 –> 00:15:42.746
VITALE: If you need it sooner, let me know what I need to shift.
00:15:43.026 –> 00:15:53.646
VITALE: Because as perfectionists, we want to appear that we have it all, because the assistant role is really this hero, do it all, save the day, behind the scenes, running the show role.
00:15:55.026 –> 00:15:59.566
VITALE: And so to admit that actually that can’t get done till next week can be really scary.
00:16:01.826 –> 00:16:22.586
JEREMY: And it’s like the it’s like you’re not saying no, but you’re also not saying yes without any sort of thought or any sort of assessment on, okay, how much time do I really have and what other priorities am I working on?
00:16:22.686 –> 00:16:30.826
JEREMY: And so it’s kind of like, yes, I’d be happy to help and I’m going to need to push it back or push this other thing back.
00:16:32.266 –> 00:16:33.866
JEREMY: So yeah, that’s great.
00:16:34.306 –> 00:16:36.506
VITALE: Well, and we teach people how to treat us, right?
00:16:36.526 –> 00:16:42.966
VITALE: So if we’re constantly telling people we’re superhuman, right, they’re going to think that we’re superhuman, right?
00:16:42.986 –> 00:16:50.286
VITALE: They don’t know the hours that are happening when they’re not, you know, you don’t see them or the after hours work that you’re putting in.
00:16:50.306 –> 00:16:53.146
VITALE: And so we have to reteach people.
00:16:55.546 –> 00:16:58.266
JEREMY: So, okay, so let’s flip the table a little bit.
00:16:58.506 –> 00:17:06.066
JEREMY: And how if you have a colleague or if your executive is the one that’s the perfectionist.
00:17:07.286 –> 00:17:07.946
JEREMY: You know what I mean?
00:17:07.966 –> 00:17:15.806
JEREMY: Like, how do you gently encourage and challenge them out of their perfectionism?
00:17:16.366 –> 00:17:16.686
VITALE: Yeah.
00:17:16.706 –> 00:17:18.166
VITALE: So I get a lot of those questions.
00:17:18.186 –> 00:17:22.566
VITALE: It’s like, okay, well, I’m working on healing my perfectionism, but the person that I report to is not.
00:17:24.266 –> 00:17:25.226
VITALE: What do I do?
00:17:25.666 –> 00:17:32.446
VITALE: And it’s just even that example that I gave with the realistic, you know, the realistic deadlines versus the people pleasing deadlines.
00:17:32.466 –> 00:17:39.726
VITALE: It’s, you know, having the courage to say, hey, realistically, that project is going to be done next week or realistic.
00:17:39.766 –> 00:17:46.366
VITALE: You know, these timelines that you’re requesting are really unrealistic, given all of the different priorities.
00:17:46.386 –> 00:17:55.466
VITALE: And I’m not saying that it can’t be done, but I want you to really get a full picture of what everything that the company, I, whomever, are working on and all the different things that are going on right now.
00:17:55.486 –> 00:18:01.546
VITALE: It requires courage to even say, you know, I’m really focusing on my family right now.
00:18:01.646 –> 00:18:07.406
VITALE: And so one of my priorities and boundaries that I’m setting is I’m not going to be checking emails after 6 p.m.
00:18:08.866 –> 00:18:14.706
VITALE: And so if there are different ways that we can work on communicating so that I can still be responsive, let’s work on that.
00:18:14.726 –> 00:18:20.146
VITALE: But I also want to let you know that this is a shift that I’m making, which again is a really scary conversation to have.
00:18:20.826 –> 00:18:28.406
VITALE: But do we, you know, if we want to have these work-life boundaries, if we want to prioritize our personal life, then we have to say those things.
00:18:30.446 –> 00:18:39.466
VITALE: Another way of doing that, too, is just, you know, really being just upfront and clear with your expectations, your timelines, when you can get things done.
00:18:39.486 –> 00:18:43.026
VITALE: So just being really thoughtful, practicing the pause and not overcommitting.
00:18:45.726 –> 00:18:49.186
VITALE: Remembering when we say yes to something, we’re saying no to something else.
00:18:49.626 –> 00:18:49.966
JEREMY: Right.
00:18:50.226 –> 00:18:50.526
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:18:50.546 –> 00:19:03.906
JEREMY: I mean, I was thinking it’s kind of like, you know, if your executive is a perfectionist, then you almost have the power, in a way, for lack of a better term.
00:19:04.726 –> 00:19:11.566
JEREMY: You almost have the power to feed their perfectionism based on how you react and how you respond to them.
00:19:12.306 –> 00:19:12.586
VITALE: Right.
00:19:12.606 –> 00:19:27.286
VITALE: And if you’re constantly like having like setting these unrealistic deadlines, like working overtime to get all this stuff done, I mean, you’re feeding into this perfectionist, you know, ideal that’s just not.
00:19:27.306 –> 00:19:32.586
VITALE: Here’s the thing, too, is to let go of perfectionism is not to say that your work product and your work quality suffers.
00:19:33.526 –> 00:19:38.306
VITALE: It actually gets better because you drop the overwhelm, the anxiety, the questioning of yourself.
00:19:39.226 –> 00:19:44.386
VITALE: You drop the people pleasing, you drop the, you know, saying all of the self-criticism that comes with it.
00:19:44.406 –> 00:19:55.226
VITALE: So you drop all this energy that accompanies perfectionism, which imagine how much more energy you would have in your life to give to work, family, whatever it is that you want.
00:19:55.306 –> 00:19:56.786
VITALE: You know, you want to focus on.
00:19:57.346 –> 00:19:57.686
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:19:58.566 –> 00:20:01.386
JEREMY: Yeah, it’s kind of like the perfectionism.
00:20:01.866 –> 00:20:09.466
JEREMY: You know, the more you strive for it, the further away from perfect you are.
00:20:09.846 –> 00:20:16.146
JEREMY: And the less you strive for it, the better, you know, it’s almost like it’s like that counterintuitive mindset shift.
00:20:16.766 –> 00:20:33.386
VITALE: And I think another thing that can be helpful, too, is sitting down with your executive and saying, and this can be scary, especially if you’re reporting to a perfectionist, but sitting down and saying, of the things that are on my plate, what require 100% and what require 85?
00:20:35.686 –> 00:20:41.266
VITALE: Right, which is totally like probably gives all of my perfectionists that are listening right now anxiety, be like, what?
00:20:41.266 –> 00:20:48.746
VITALE: Something can be 85%, but maybe internal emails can be 85%, meaning you prove it once you send it out and you move on.
00:20:49.586 –> 00:20:55.206
VITALE: Maybe an email that goes out to the board of directors of a public company needs to be 100%, right?
00:20:55.226 –> 00:20:56.206
VITALE: So you need to prove it.
00:20:56.226 –> 00:20:57.146
VITALE: Maybe someone else does it.
00:20:57.166 –> 00:20:57.846
VITALE: You know what I’m saying?
00:20:57.866 –> 00:20:59.346
VITALE: Like that sort of thing.
00:20:59.366 –> 00:21:07.286
VITALE: You know, so it’s knowing like which of your tasks really need to be accurate and 100% and which ones can be 85%.
00:21:07.706 –> 00:21:08.026
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:21:09.166 –> 00:21:12.786
JEREMY: Yeah, because it’s not always, hey, if I do this, I’m not going to be able to do this.
00:21:13.786 –> 00:21:32.686
JEREMY: Like you said, it can be, hey, if I put my, you know, top notch focus and energy on this, I can still complete this project, but, you know, it won’t be as buttoned up as you may want it.
00:21:33.286 –> 00:21:34.306
JEREMY: And are you OK with that?
00:21:35.386 –> 00:21:37.986
VITALE: Like a first draft of something might be 85%.
00:21:38.386 –> 00:21:52.886
VITALE: But it’s also good to communicate that with your leader and get on the same page, because oftentimes, too, when we are working with perfectionist leaders, you know, there’s that desire for everything to be 100% when some things just don’t need to be.
00:21:53.266 –> 00:21:58.946
VITALE: So even having that conversation can help them to start thinking, well, maybe that doesn’t need to be 100%.
00:21:59.146 –> 00:22:00.946
VITALE: OK, I’ve just never even thought of things like that.
00:22:00.966 –> 00:22:03.006
VITALE: I never really thought about stuff like that, right?
00:22:04.906 –> 00:22:24.186
VITALE: There was a lawyer that I was speaking with and he was saying that, you know, there was a pro bono client that he was working with and he said, you know, typically if it was a corporate client, they would, you know, spend a ton of hours on this and make sure, you know, but it was OK.
00:22:24.206 –> 00:22:29.726
VITALE: The pro bono contract was good enough, like to spend five hours on instead of 20 hours on.
00:22:30.846 –> 00:22:32.786
VITALE: And it was going to be a great contract.
00:22:33.566 –> 00:22:35.526
VITALE: I didn’t need to throw any more hours into it.
00:22:35.546 –> 00:22:37.106
VITALE: Like that was good enough.
00:22:37.626 –> 00:22:37.966
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:22:38.726 –> 00:22:39.806
VITALE: So even just identify.
00:22:40.626 –> 00:22:50.426
JEREMY: Yeah, I remember, you know, the probably the best example I can think of this is I remember taking my executive ICO to the airport one time.
00:22:50.446 –> 00:23:00.766
JEREMY: And, you know, I used to put together the super in depth travel itinerary with all these, you know, all the details, everything you could possibly think of.
00:23:01.506 –> 00:23:04.426
JEREMY: And I remember, you know, I was taking the airport and he’s like, Hey, what?
00:23:04.426 –> 00:23:06.106
JEREMY: He was asking me a question about the itinerary.
00:23:06.126 –> 00:23:08.026
JEREMY: And he’s like, What’s the deal with this list?
00:23:08.046 –> 00:23:09.786
JEREMY: And I was like, Oh, it’s on the calendar invite.
00:23:10.346 –> 00:23:17.246
JEREMY: And he pulls up the calendar invite and he’s like, Yeah, you know, I can’t even read those because my phone app formats it all funky.
00:23:17.246 –> 00:23:18.326
JEREMY: And so I haven’t even been able to.
00:23:18.346 –> 00:23:22.946
JEREMY: And I’m like, I’ve been I’ve been giving 100% on these itineraries for months.
00:23:23.866 –> 00:23:25.886
JEREMY: And he can’t even reach them on his phone.
00:23:26.666 –> 00:23:30.706
JEREMY: So anyway, it it kind of showed me I was like, Oh, OK.
00:23:30.726 –> 00:23:39.366
JEREMY: So there’s actually I can strip that down to the very critical points of information that he needs.
00:23:39.386 –> 00:23:48.286
JEREMY: So now my travel itineraries are on the calendar with very minimal formatting and, you know, simple things like, Oh, this is your flight number, your confirmation number.
00:23:50.126 –> 00:23:52.926
JEREMY: This is the airline, you know, and that’s it.
00:23:53.126 –> 00:24:06.686
JEREMY: And so, yeah, you’d be surprised at how often there, you know, we do, especially as assistants, we put all this effort into it and then we think, OK, this is great.
00:24:06.706 –> 00:24:10.726
JEREMY: And then we turn it over to the executive or colleague and they’re like, Oh, OK.
00:24:11.106 –> 00:24:13.706
JEREMY: Wow, you went over far and above what I was expecting.
00:24:13.726 –> 00:24:16.726
JEREMY: I was just thinking this and you’re like, Oh, no, I just spent three days on that.
00:24:16.746 –> 00:24:18.646
JEREMY: I could have spent 30 minutes on it.
00:24:19.046 –> 00:24:19.386
VITALE: Right.
00:24:19.666 –> 00:24:19.986
VITALE: Right.
00:24:20.246 –> 00:24:22.246
JEREMY: So anyway, yeah, that’s great.
00:24:23.206 –> 00:24:25.886
JEREMY: Well, yeah, I think.
00:24:26.566 –> 00:24:34.586
JEREMY: Is there anything else, Vitale, that you would like to share with Assistants of the World before we wrap up?
00:24:35.026 –> 00:24:51.546
VITALE: Yeah, I would say that one of the good kind of guides for knowing if you are in perfectionism mode or not is when you look at your motivations for doing something, making a decision, whatever, really knowing, am I doing this for love or from love?
00:24:53.826 –> 00:24:57.986
VITALE: And so when we are doing things for love, we are in perfectionism mode.
00:24:59.806 –> 00:25:01.406
VITALE: I’m doing this because I need your approval.
00:25:01.426 –> 00:25:11.206
VITALE: Instead of doing it from love, from love is, you know, I’m really proud of my position and the role that I have, and I love the relationship that I have with my executive.
00:25:11.446 –> 00:25:15.786
VITALE: And I’m going to do this because I want to, you know, it’s from love instead of for love.
00:25:15.806 –> 00:25:21.006
VITALE: So for me, it’s always a good distinction to think, okay, am I doing this for love or am I doing it from love?
00:25:22.426 –> 00:25:23.166
JEREMY: Well, that’s great.
00:25:23.186 –> 00:25:28.126
JEREMY: It’s actually very, might even like it better than what I usually use.
00:25:28.146 –> 00:25:38.866
JEREMY: And I wrote this in my book, but I talk about this quote from Dorothy Sayers, and she talks about serving the work versus angling for applause.
00:25:39.746 –> 00:25:40.126
VITALE: Right.
00:25:40.246 –> 00:25:41.606
JEREMY: And so it’s kind of the same idea.
00:25:41.986 –> 00:25:47.926
JEREMY: Am I doing this because I’m trying to do good work or am I doing this because I want that pat on the shoulder?
00:25:47.946 –> 00:25:49.006
JEREMY: Right.
00:25:49.366 –> 00:25:50.766
JEREMY: So yeah, well said.
00:25:50.786 –> 00:25:51.766
JEREMY: Great way to finish.
00:25:51.786 –> 00:25:53.666
JEREMY: Thank you so much for sharing your story.
00:25:53.666 –> 00:25:55.686
JEREMY: And what’s the best place?
00:25:55.706 –> 00:26:01.006
JEREMY: I’ll put all your links in the show notes, but what’s the kind of one place that you’d like people to reach out if they want to learn more?
00:26:02.046 –> 00:26:06.166
VITALE: I would say that LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me, just given that my name can be a little difficult.
00:26:07.726 –> 00:26:08.386
JEREMY: Sounds good.
00:26:09.186 –> 00:26:13.806
JEREMY: Well, I’ll put that link and then your website and everything in your link to your book.
00:26:14.726 –> 00:26:17.306
JEREMY: Your book is called Addicted to Perfect.
00:26:17.326 –> 00:26:17.766
JEREMY: Is that right?
00:26:18.226 –> 00:26:18.866
VITALE: That’s right.
00:26:19.406 –> 00:26:19.746
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:26:19.766 –> 00:26:27.566
JEREMY: So I’ll put all those links in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/258leaderassistant.com/ 258.
00:26:28.146 –> 00:26:35.846
JEREMY: And yeah, Vitale, thank you so much for your time and best of luck in continuing your battle against perfectionism.
00:26:36.786 –> 00:26:37.406
VITALE: Thank you, Jeremy.
00:26:47.961 –> 00:26:50.721
VITALE: Please review on Apple Podcasts.
00:26:57.060 –> 00:26:58.860
<v SPEAKER_3>goburrows.com
