This episode features a conversation I had with Candice Burningham and Jessica McBride on an episode of their podcast, The Future Focused Admin. We dig into the debate of the “assistant” title, the varying costs of professional development for administrative professionals, and more. Enjoy!
ABOUT THE FUTURE FOCUSED ADMIN PODCAST
The Future Focused Admin podcast is hosted by Candice Burningham from Admin Avenues and Jessica McBride from The Tech Savvy Assistant. Join them on a journey to reshape the admin profession for the future. Delve into evolving roles, emerging trends, and progressive approaches that elevate administrative roles to new heights. Get valuable insights on topics like digital transformation, remote work, and career growth. Be empowered to make a difference in the admin profession and create an admin career that works for you. Be prepared to laugh, be inspired, and equipped with knowledge.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00.180 –> 00:00:03.220
JEREMY: In-person meeting planning can be a lot to manage.
00:00:03.220 –> 00:00:05.940
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00:00:05.940 –> 00:00:10.560
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00:00:10.560 –> 00:00:19.640
JEREMY: Whether you’re organizing an executive offsite, department meeting, or team retreat, TROOP keeps it simple, fast, and organized.
00:00:19.640 –> 00:00:34.480
JEREMY: From choosing the perfect location to managing budgets, coordinating travel, and tracking attendee details, TROOP brings everything together in one easy-to-use platform, so you can save time and focus on what matters most.
00:00:34.480 –> 00:00:41.140
JEREMY: TROOP has an exclusive offer for Leader Assistant listeners through Administrative Professionals Day, so don’t miss out.
00:00:41.140 –> 00:00:46.180
JEREMY: Visit leaderassistant.com/troop to learn more.
00:00:46.180 –> 00:00:49.860
JEREMY: Hey friends, welcome to episode 309 of The Leader Assistant Podcast.
00:00:49.860 –> 00:00:59.340
JEREMY: This episode features a conversation I had with Candice Burningham and Jessica McBride on their podcast, The Future Focused Admin.
00:00:59.340 –> 00:01:11.500
JEREMY: In this conversation, we dive in to the debate of the Assistant title, the varying costs of various professional development for Administrative Professionals, and much more.
00:01:11.500 –> 00:01:15.020
JEREMY: So I hope you enjoy it and you can check out the show notes at leaderassistant.com/309.
00:01:18.440 –> 00:01:27.440
JEREMY: Again, that’s leaderassistant.com/309, and I’ll link to the Future Focused Admin show in there as well.
00:01:27.440 –> 00:01:28.120
JEREMY: Hope you enjoy it.
00:01:34.559 –> 00:01:42.159
<v SPEAKER_2>The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.
00:01:50.701 –> 00:01:52.061
JEREMY: Hey, friends, it’s Jeremy again.
00:01:52.061 –> 00:01:53.401
JEREMY: Thanks again for listening.
00:01:53.401 –> 00:02:02.861
JEREMY: Just want to let you know, in case you didn’t, that my best-selling book, The Leader Assistant, has a companion study and discussion guide to go along with it.
00:02:02.861 –> 00:02:05.881
JEREMY: It’s called The Leader Assistant Workbook.
00:02:05.881 –> 00:02:18.901
JEREMY: Now, you can buy the Kindle eBook version of The Leader Assistant Workbook on Amazon, or you can go to leaderassistantbook.com and get a printable PDF version of The Workbook.
00:02:19.481 –> 00:02:28.101
JEREMY: This version has all the space and margin in between the questions that you can write your own answers and take notes with.
00:02:28.101 –> 00:02:35.541
JEREMY: So, it’s a great way to print it out and keep track of your discussion and study guide notes.
00:02:35.541 –> 00:02:42.781
JEREMY: Again, go to leaderassistantbook.com and click on Workbook to check out The Leader Assistant Workbook.
00:02:42.781 –> 00:02:46.001
CANDICE: Okay, so welcome back to The Future Focused Admin.
00:02:46.541 –> 00:02:58.821
CANDICE: We’ve got a very special episode today because we are combining our forces with The Leader Assistant Podcast, Jeremy Burrows, who’s, well, the host of The Leader Assistant Podcast.
00:02:58.821 –> 00:03:00.501
CANDICE: So, welcome, Jeremy.
00:03:00.501 –> 00:03:01.421
JEREMY: Thanks, Candice.
00:03:01.421 –> 00:03:02.861
JEREMY: Good to be here.
00:03:02.861 –> 00:03:03.801
CANDICE: Awesome.
00:03:03.801 –> 00:03:13.661
CANDICE: So, we have a very invested, what’s the word, interest in our profession.
00:03:13.681 –> 00:03:19.061
CANDICE: And all three of us, obviously, we’re all deeply passionate about what we do and also our community.
00:03:19.061 –> 00:03:23.621
CANDICE: So, we have very different views on a lot of things, which I think is great.
00:03:23.621 –> 00:03:29.741
CANDICE: I love a good, healthy debate, and I love different opinions, and I love that they’re all coming from all different parts of the world.
00:03:29.741 –> 00:03:46.341
CANDICE: And I was like, let’s all jump on a podcast and discuss these differences, discuss what’s going on in the profession, and discuss what the outpour of comments was on my viral post and different opinions on that.
00:03:46.341 –> 00:03:50.561
CANDICE: And we’ll just have a little general chat on what’s going on in the profession.
00:03:50.561 –> 00:03:59.881
CANDICE: So, let’s start with the debate of dropping the title assistant, since we haven’t really moved off it since this post went viral.
00:04:01.301 –> 00:04:15.201
CANDICE: Obviously, if you’re jumping the queue and listening to this episode direct, I did a LinkedIn post that I’ve pinned that is titled saying goodbye to the title assistant.
00:04:15.201 –> 00:04:20.781
CANDICE: And I’ve done it before, I’ve done it several times, but for some reason, it really hit a nerve this time.
00:04:20.781 –> 00:04:28.061
CANDICE: It had over 700,000 impressions and hundreds of comments, hundreds of reposts.
00:04:28.061 –> 00:04:38.781
CANDICE: So, it really was the first time I’ve seen something go this crazy in our community groups, and especially on LinkedIn, regarding the title of our profession.
00:04:40.201 –> 00:04:52.281
CANDICE: So, Jeremy is, his company is called The Leader Assistant, his book is called The Leader Assistant, no, yes, The Leader Assistant.
00:04:52.281 –> 00:04:57.561
CANDICE: So, obviously, he wouldn’t want to be a fan of letting go of The Leader Assistant.
00:04:57.621 –> 00:05:04.041
CANDICE: But also, he has a different view on that, because he is also an executive assistant and he wants to keep that title.
00:05:04.041 –> 00:05:12.241
CANDICE: So, tell us a little bit about your thoughts on it, Jeremy, and what you’re hearing in your community group and whatnot.
00:05:12.241 –> 00:05:13.121
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:05:13.121 –> 00:05:13.341
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:05:13.341 –> 00:05:24.381
JEREMY: Well, I think the first of all, I just want to say thanks again for having me on the show and for engaging in conversation with someone who may not agree with everything.
00:05:25.241 –> 00:05:26.721
JEREMY: So, I appreciate that.
00:05:26.721 –> 00:05:27.701
CANDICE: We love that.
00:05:27.701 –> 00:05:28.581
JEREMY: Open discourse.
00:05:28.581 –> 00:05:40.721
JEREMY: But yeah, I think when it comes to the titles, I mean, there’s a lot of different areas that I think we could talk about, and it’d be fun to bounce back and forth and hear your thoughts.
00:05:40.721 –> 00:05:50.761
JEREMY: But specifically for me, I like the title assistant because I’m assisting my CEO in executing his vision.
00:05:50.761 –> 00:05:54.681
JEREMY: A lot of times people ask me like, hey, you know, how can I be a better assistant?
00:05:54.681 –> 00:05:56.741
JEREMY: How can I be better at my job?
00:05:56.741 –> 00:06:02.441
JEREMY: And the way that I like to look at it is, I’m actually not looking for how to be a better assistant.
00:06:02.441 –> 00:06:05.421
JEREMY: I’m actually looking at how to be a better CEO.
00:06:05.421 –> 00:06:19.761
JEREMY: And so when I think about my job, I think about what is my CEO doing day to day and what do they need to do to accomplish company goals, department goals, personal goals, et cetera.
00:06:20.781 –> 00:06:36.281
JEREMY: And so what the way I look at it is I want to try to put myself in the shoes of the CEO and take off as much as I can from their plate and do more and more of their job.
00:06:36.281 –> 00:06:42.561
JEREMY: And when I do that, that makes me more invaluable to the organization and to that executive.
00:06:43.201 –> 00:06:55.641
JEREMY: But it also, excuse me, it also allows me to really be that strategic partner with that executive.
00:06:55.641 –> 00:07:01.361
JEREMY: Because your goals, your goals are my goals kind of a thing.
00:07:01.361 –> 00:07:02.381
JEREMY: So that’s kind of mine.
00:07:02.381 –> 00:07:06.461
CANDICE: Do you think you’re more of a strategic partner than an assistant?
00:07:06.461 –> 00:07:07.881
JEREMY: Depends on what day it is.
00:07:07.881 –> 00:07:08.741
JEREMY: Depends on what day it is.
00:07:09.461 –> 00:07:15.261
JEREMY: There are days when I’m scheduling investor meetings non-stop.
00:07:15.261 –> 00:07:25.341
JEREMY: And there are days when I’m re-drafting or rewriting the board deck for the upcoming quarterly board meeting.
00:07:25.341 –> 00:07:39.101
JEREMY: And then there are days when I’m sitting in the board meeting or sitting in the leadership team meeting and I’m bouncing ideas off with all the other executives about, hey, how are we going to reach this milestone by the end of the year?
00:07:39.101 –> 00:07:41.581
JEREMY: So it really depends, really depends.
00:07:41.581 –> 00:07:47.321
JEREMY: But that’s kind of my high level, like that’s how I view my role personally.
00:07:47.321 –> 00:07:48.501
JEREMY: And I don’t care.
00:07:48.501 –> 00:08:01.601
JEREMY: When I say I don’t care about titles, I don’t care about like you can call me an assistant, you can call me executive business partner, you can call me director of operations, you can call me chief of staff.
00:08:01.601 –> 00:08:02.721
JEREMY: I don’t really care what you call me.
00:08:03.521 –> 00:08:12.461
JEREMY: What I do care about is my compensation, my respect that you’re going to give me or not give me the job description.
00:08:12.461 –> 00:08:16.941
JEREMY: Is it something that I’m actually passionate about and want to wake up in the morning and do?
00:08:18.361 –> 00:08:21.301
JEREMY: And so those are all the things I care about.
00:08:21.361 –> 00:08:42.761
JEREMY: Now, what I’d like to say, though, is I’ve gathered a lot of research from my community on titles and compensation and salaries and experience, geography, all the different variables that come into play.
00:08:42.821 –> 00:08:55.861
JEREMY: And there are assistance in my community that their title is Executive Business Partner at a financial tech company in the Seattle area, making $70,000 a year.
00:08:55.861 –> 00:09:03.801
JEREMY: And then I have assistance in rural America with a title of Executive Assistant, making $120,000 a year.
00:09:03.801 –> 00:09:18.761
JEREMY: So when I say I don’t really care about titles, I personally mean I don’t care about a title, but it also mean that I think it’s the bottom of the list when it comes to what we should really try to drive forward.
00:09:18.761 –> 00:09:38.981
JEREMY: Now, all that to say, kind of my last point on the title is, I think that if your organization or your industry or even your executive, if they will respect you and pay you more with a title change, then go for it, go get a title change.
00:09:38.981 –> 00:09:49.501
JEREMY: But if some industries don’t care about the titles or they’re not going to respect you because you have a different title, they’re not going to pay you just because you have a different title.
00:09:49.501 –> 00:09:58.261
JEREMY: So what I love about Lin-Walder’s work and others in the field, is they don’t just talk about titles, they talk about levels.
00:09:58.341 –> 00:10:03.401
JEREMY: So I actually think the levels are the most important because a lot of these assistants work in companies that don’t even have levels.
00:10:05.001 –> 00:10:13.841
JEREMY: So anyway, that’s kind of my quick version of the title conversation that’s been going on, but I’d love to dig deeper on any of those areas.
00:10:13.841 –> 00:10:16.881
CANDICE: Well, everybody knows my opinion because they saw my post.
00:10:16.881 –> 00:10:21.161
CANDICE: So Jessica, do you want to jump in and what you’re hearing in your community as well?
00:10:22.221 –> 00:10:28.781
JESSICA: Yeah, so I agree that there is a lot of the issue with it’s more of like a leveling issue than the actual title.
00:10:28.781 –> 00:10:33.041
JESSICA: I also have assistant in my brand name, so I really I don’t care either way.
00:10:33.041 –> 00:10:35.161
JESSICA: I used to think I don’t really care about titles.
00:10:35.161 –> 00:10:36.541
JESSICA: I don’t think they matter.
00:10:36.541 –> 00:10:44.361
JESSICA: And then I went from making about $52,000 a year to $120,000 when I went from being a virtual assistant to an executive assistant.
00:10:44.361 –> 00:10:47.461
JESSICA: So immediately, like, it did jump, it jumped.
00:10:47.461 –> 00:10:55.901
JESSICA: And I did not have trouble working with people with an assistant title and feeling like I wasn’t being taken seriously.
00:10:55.901 –> 00:10:57.981
JESSICA: But I’m really aggressive and I’m assertive.
00:10:58.081 –> 00:11:03.601
JESSICA: And I put myself out there in a way that a lot of peers are not.
00:11:03.601 –> 00:11:16.481
JESSICA: I’m going to just tell a slight derailing story really quickly that’s going to show, in my opinion, why titles do matter, especially when you’re working with a board and a lot of men, especially in CEO-type levels.
00:11:16.481 –> 00:11:19.881
JESSICA: Is my current husband, love him.
00:11:19.881 –> 00:11:22.961
JESSICA: He was a business analyst for Walmart for many, many years.
00:11:22.961 –> 00:11:28.861
JESSICA: He was applying for jobs and he went to go interview for this other big, large corporation.
00:11:29.901 –> 00:11:34.201
JESSICA: They were going to hire him in as a manager, a manager of something, something.
00:11:34.201 –> 00:11:38.041
JESSICA: But he was going to be going in and meeting with ABPs on a day-to-day basis.
00:11:38.041 –> 00:11:41.581
JESSICA: This was 10 years ago and he was like, I can’t do that.
00:11:41.801 –> 00:11:45.161
JESSICA: I cannot go into this room and expect to be treated.
00:11:45.161 –> 00:11:51.981
JESSICA: They’re not going to treat me the same on the same respect level that they would ABP or an ABP.
00:11:51.981 –> 00:11:54.381
JESSICA: He negotiated and they came back with the director title.
00:11:55.541 –> 00:11:56.101
JESSICA: I’ll never forget this.
00:11:56.101 –> 00:12:02.241
JESSICA: He was like, I have to sit down because he was so shocked at making a director.
00:12:02.301 –> 00:12:05.461
JESSICA: Because immediately, you’re given more respect.
00:12:05.461 –> 00:12:12.621
JESSICA: I think that’s what we need to focus on more is the ones that are doing strategic level work and business and they really are these high-level admins.
00:12:12.621 –> 00:12:21.181
JESSICA: It’s like, how do we better encapsulate that it’s so much more than just running a schedule, which is still a very complex thing and don’t get me started because I don’t want to run a schedule.
00:12:21.721 –> 00:12:27.121
JESSICA: But there’s so much more into it that we’re not getting credit for the work that we’re doing.
00:12:27.141 –> 00:12:33.401
JESSICA: When we talk about compensation, it’s like nobody is utilizing these titles the same way.
00:12:33.401 –> 00:12:37.461
JESSICA: No company uses executive assistant across the board.
00:12:37.461 –> 00:12:38.461
JESSICA: It’s all over the place.
00:12:38.661 –> 00:12:43.601
JESSICA: We really do need to focus more on the idea of how do we grade this?
00:12:44.121 –> 00:12:48.101
JESSICA: I usually use the World Administrators job matrix.
00:12:48.101 –> 00:12:53.641
JESSICA: I really like to compare job postings to that, to see how is this actually leveled and what is the expectation.
00:12:54.861 –> 00:13:02.761
JESSICA: Because you can call it an assistant, you can call it an executive support, you can call it whatever, and I want respect and I want to be paid well.
00:13:02.761 –> 00:13:11.241
JESSICA: I do recognize at the end of the day that how I am perceived by my title is going to vary different than Jeremy.
00:13:11.521 –> 00:13:15.561
JESSICA: Than it’s going to vary my woman of color co-worker.
00:13:15.561 –> 00:13:21.461
JESSICA: It’s all a matter of addressing that there’s real issues that play behind more than just the title.
00:13:21.461 –> 00:13:28.481
JESSICA: Like there’s so many deeper levels that actually need to like get addressed to manage the pay gap.
00:13:28.481 –> 00:13:28.761
CANDICE: Yep.
00:13:28.761 –> 00:13:29.261
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:13:29.261 –> 00:13:30.701
JEREMY: Well said.
00:13:30.701 –> 00:13:49.881
CANDICE: That’s something we should definitely hit on, is that there is a really different, and Jeremy and I spoke about this the other day, is we have the same title, Executive Assistant, but we’ve had completely different careers, and we’ve had completely different ways that we’ve gone through our career, but we hold the same title.
00:13:50.941 –> 00:13:55.641
CANDICE: We didn’t discuss salary or anything, but I’m sure that we’ve had very different salaries as well.
00:13:55.641 –> 00:13:59.061
CANDICE: I’m not afraid to save my salaries.
00:14:02.061 –> 00:14:03.261
CANDICE: I was paid very well.
00:14:04.121 –> 00:14:09.041
CANDICE: I don’t want viewers to be caught out by it, so I won’t say it.
00:14:09.101 –> 00:14:10.861
CANDICE: And if you want to ask me, feel free for it.
00:14:10.861 –> 00:14:14.321
CANDICE: If anyone wants to jump in my DMs and say, how much do you earn?
00:14:14.321 –> 00:14:15.421
CANDICE: But I did earn well.
00:14:15.421 –> 00:14:19.681
CANDICE: I did earn very well for a female executive assistant.
00:14:19.681 –> 00:14:20.521
CANDICE: But I earned it.
00:14:20.961 –> 00:14:23.181
CANDICE: I would fight for my salary reviews.
00:14:23.181 –> 00:14:24.021
CANDICE: I would fight for it.
00:14:24.021 –> 00:14:24.961
CANDICE: And this is the difference, right?
00:14:24.961 –> 00:14:26.601
CANDICE: I had to fight for everything.
00:14:26.601 –> 00:14:29.721
CANDICE: I particularly remember when I worked for a president.
00:14:29.721 –> 00:14:33.461
CANDICE: It came to interview bonuses, and I had to do the letters.
00:14:33.461 –> 00:14:36.361
CANDICE: And I did the letters, and I went, I’m not in here.
00:14:37.241 –> 00:14:39.961
CANDICE: And she went, well, you’re on an admin band.
00:14:39.961 –> 00:14:48.721
CANDICE: And I went, so did I not work as hard as everybody else, if not harder, because we were starting a new business unit?
00:14:49.581 –> 00:14:51.761
CANDICE: Did I not work as hard as everybody else?
00:14:51.761 –> 00:14:53.561
CANDICE: And she was like, yes.
00:14:53.561 –> 00:14:55.721
CANDICE: And I said, well, I don’t deserve a bonus.
00:14:55.721 –> 00:14:57.761
CANDICE: And she’s like, it’s not like that.
00:14:57.761 –> 00:14:59.421
CANDICE: You would need to speak to HR.
00:14:59.421 –> 00:15:01.021
CANDICE: And I said, no, you do.
00:15:01.021 –> 00:15:04.381
CANDICE: You need to speak to HR because you should be fighting for this for me.
00:15:05.661 –> 00:15:06.941
CANDICE: And she didn’t.
00:15:06.941 –> 00:15:08.641
CANDICE: And so I left.
00:15:09.821 –> 00:15:18.461
CANDICE: But I’m privileged and lucky enough that I’m able to just leave a position if I don’t feel treated well or I don’t feel that my value is being seen.
00:15:18.461 –> 00:15:21.821
CANDICE: But that probably kicked off my admin advocacy.
00:15:21.821 –> 00:15:23.401
CANDICE: I was like, bugger this.
00:15:23.401 –> 00:15:30.201
CANDICE: This is so unfair that everybody else got to have a bonus except for me because I’m on a band.
00:15:30.201 –> 00:15:33.661
CANDICE: And I understand that the title is not the big problem here.
00:15:33.761 –> 00:15:37.801
CANDICE: I mean, it is because the next generation don’t want to be an assistant.
00:15:37.801 –> 00:15:40.121
CANDICE: That’s not the career choice for them.
00:15:41.161 –> 00:15:48.221
CANDICE: What annoys me about, because I put it out there and I always have, is that I was always proud to be an executive assistant.
00:15:48.221 –> 00:15:50.381
CANDICE: If someone wants to come up on the street and say, what do you do for a living?
00:15:50.381 –> 00:15:52.061
CANDICE: I’d say executive assistant.
00:15:53.421 –> 00:15:55.421
CANDICE: There’s no dirty word in assistant to me.
00:15:55.421 –> 00:15:57.661
CANDICE: I’m very proud to have had that career.
00:15:57.661 –> 00:16:12.341
CANDICE: But I don’t feel that it has ever encapsulated the value that I have bought, the support that I have bought, the strategy that I have done, the ability to become an entrepreneur from these skills.
00:16:12.341 –> 00:16:16.861
CANDICE: If anything, and Jeremy, I’m sorry, I’m going to put you on the spotlight here.
00:16:17.161 –> 00:16:47.541
CANDICE: The difference between you and I is, I publicly have been on the job hunt for a while, and people have looked at my LinkedIn, they’ve had confirmation of this, and seen that because I have a podcast, and because I have admin avenues, they have said that I am overqualified, and that they felt feared that I wouldn’t be able to do the job, and focus on the job when I have all these other things.
00:16:47.541 –> 00:16:49.601
CANDICE: Has anyone ever said that to you?
00:16:49.601 –> 00:16:59.221
CANDICE: Has anyone ever said, Jeremy, how could you possibly be a CEO, CEO and have a podcast and a community and then then?
00:16:59.221 –> 00:17:04.161
CANDICE: I mean, you do a lot of speaking gigs and stuff all over the world, like you.
00:17:04.161 –> 00:17:05.101
JEREMY: Yeah, I mean, all the time.
00:17:05.101 –> 00:17:06.421
JEREMY: You perform what I do.
00:17:06.421 –> 00:17:07.541
JEREMY: Yeah, all the time.
00:17:07.541 –> 00:17:36.301
JEREMY: I mean, I interviewed with a CEO offering $220,000 for an assistant as a salary, and this is one of those crazy, innovative tech world jobs, and I interviewed and he basically was like, I haven’t taken a day off in three months, and this is kind of what I don’t really know what I need, but I know I need somebody like you, etc., etc.
00:17:36.301 –> 00:17:48.041
JEREMY: And it was one of the things where I literally told my current CEO, I said, hey, I just got off this interview with this guy and he’s offering $220,000, but it sounds like there’s no balance and whatever.
00:17:48.081 –> 00:17:52.701
JEREMY: And he’s like, listen, I’d love to pay you $220,000 and hopefully someday I can.
00:17:54.021 –> 00:17:58.821
JEREMY: But, you know, there’s so much more than just your salary.
00:17:58.821 –> 00:18:11.241
JEREMY: And to be able to work for a CEO who when you launch your book, he posts on LinkedIn saying, hey, my assistant wrote a book, you should check it out.
00:18:11.241 –> 00:18:13.321
JEREMY: And I didn’t have to post it for him.
00:18:14.621 –> 00:18:15.801
JEREMY: That’s, that’s huge.
00:18:15.801 –> 00:18:19.121
JEREMY: Like, that’s a very unique situation.
00:18:19.121 –> 00:18:25.521
JEREMY: And I totally get that that’s not normal and that’s not necessarily common.
00:18:25.521 –> 00:18:34.961
JEREMY: Although I know several other assistants that I’ve interviewed on my podcast and that I know through my network that do have awesome relationships with their executives.
00:18:36.601 –> 00:18:54.141
JEREMY: So I’ve definitely had those situations where it’s like, oh, I could go work for two or three times the salary that I started with here at Capacity, but I’m not going to have the flexibility to fly to San Diego like I did yesterday and do a training for assistants.
00:18:54.141 –> 00:19:03.661
JEREMY: I’m not going to have the flexibility to publish podcast episodes and share my thoughts and opinions without having to get legal to sign off on it every time, you know?
00:19:05.161 –> 00:19:10.661
JEREMY: And there’s, so you kind of have to figure out what you want to do with your life.
00:19:10.661 –> 00:19:13.441
JEREMY: And in my last role, I was working at a non-profit.
00:19:13.441 –> 00:19:24.141
JEREMY: I was making, you know, by the time I left, I’d supported the senior founder, pastor at this non-profit church organization.
00:19:24.141 –> 00:19:33.061
JEREMY: And I’d supported this, I’d been there for 12 years, and I’d supported the top dog, if you will, for six years by the time I left.
00:19:33.721 –> 00:19:37.761
JEREMY: And I was making $55,000 a year, you know?
00:19:37.761 –> 00:19:47.581
JEREMY: And so I went from that world, and all my eggs were in that basket, my friends, my community, my finances, everything was in that basket.
00:19:47.581 –> 00:19:58.061
JEREMY: And then when my executive got fired, unexpectedly, I was all of a sudden like, okay, well, I thought I was gonna be here for 12 more years, and now I don’t even know what I’m gonna do the next 12 hours.
00:19:58.681 –> 00:20:05.541
JEREMY: And so I took that opportunity, learned the hard way and said, all right, I’m not gonna do this again.
00:20:05.541 –> 00:20:07.881
JEREMY: I’m gonna set up multiple streams of income.
00:20:07.881 –> 00:20:11.361
JEREMY: I’m going to find a job that pays me better.
00:20:11.361 –> 00:20:14.561
JEREMY: And I’m gonna, so that’s why I’m not in the nonprofit world anymore.
00:20:14.561 –> 00:20:19.601
JEREMY: So I voted with my feet and went to the for-profit world.
00:20:19.601 –> 00:20:30.661
JEREMY: I went to tech, AI, innovation, but I also went with an executive that I knew had the similar values as me.
00:20:30.661 –> 00:20:38.701
JEREMY: And he had also, he had sold his last company for almost a billion dollars and burned out and was tired of…
00:20:38.701 –> 00:20:42.741
CANDICE: Did you have your side hustle business?
00:20:42.741 –> 00:20:45.421
JEREMY: I’d started it like six months before.
00:20:45.421 –> 00:20:48.401
JEREMY: And I sat down and I said, I want to keep doing this.
00:20:48.401 –> 00:20:52.001
JEREMY: And he said, as long as you can do your day job, then you can keep doing it.
00:20:52.121 –> 00:20:55.601
JEREMY: And I said, all right, let’s go, I’ll be the best assistant you’ve ever had.
00:20:55.601 –> 00:20:57.641
JEREMY: Just leave me alone on the weekends.
00:20:58.181 –> 00:21:02.301
CANDICE: And that’s the kind of point I’m making for you as a man.
00:21:02.301 –> 00:21:03.881
CANDICE: You were looked at as great.
00:21:03.881 –> 00:21:05.781
CANDICE: This is probably going to help our business.
00:21:05.781 –> 00:21:06.601
CANDICE: And look at him.
00:21:06.601 –> 00:21:07.621
CANDICE: He’s a go-getter.
00:21:07.621 –> 00:21:09.101
CANDICE: And he’s got a side hustle.
00:21:09.101 –> 00:21:12.721
CANDICE: And he can do all these things and look at his podcast go.
00:21:12.721 –> 00:21:14.901
CANDICE: I was looked at as she could be.
00:21:14.901 –> 00:21:15.821
JEREMY: I didn’t have a book.
00:21:15.821 –> 00:21:16.961
JEREMY: I didn’t have a podcast.
00:21:17.121 –> 00:21:21.461
JEREMY: I mean, I literally only had an e-mail list of a few hundred.
00:21:21.461 –> 00:21:23.361
JEREMY: And I was blogging a little bit.
00:21:23.361 –> 00:21:24.601
JEREMY: And I did one speaking.
00:21:24.601 –> 00:21:24.821
CANDICE: Mr.
00:21:24.821 –> 00:21:29.641
CANDICE: 200,000 CEO, did he have a problem with you having all these side businesses?
00:21:29.641 –> 00:21:30.801
JEREMY: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
00:21:30.801 –> 00:21:34.061
JEREMY: He was like, I haven’t taken a day off.
00:21:34.061 –> 00:21:36.961
CANDICE: He didn’t have a problem with it, though, did he?
00:21:36.961 –> 00:21:38.001
JEREMY: What do you mean the next guy?
00:21:38.581 –> 00:21:40.541
CANDICE: The 200,000 one?
00:21:40.541 –> 00:21:42.801
JEREMY: No, that’s the one that had the problem with it.
00:21:42.801 –> 00:21:44.081
CANDICE: Oh, they did have a problem with it.
00:21:44.081 –> 00:21:44.881
JEREMY: Yeah, that’s the one.
00:21:44.881 –> 00:21:45.321
JEREMY: Yeah, sorry.
00:21:45.421 –> 00:21:48.181
JEREMY: That’s the one that he was like, I haven’t had a day off in three months.
00:21:48.181 –> 00:21:52.241
JEREMY: You’re just going to have to come latch on to me and it’s just going to be crazy.
00:21:52.241 –> 00:21:55.841
JEREMY: But this is we’re trying to take advantage of this innovative time.
00:21:55.841 –> 00:22:03.541
JEREMY: And we just raised millions and millions of dollars and we’re going to pay you well, but we’re going to figure this thing out.
00:22:03.541 –> 00:22:11.581
JEREMY: And so I was like, yeah, I have kids, I have hobbies, you know, I like sleep, things like that.
00:22:11.581 –> 00:22:13.361
CANDICE: And I’m in good shape.
00:22:17.921 –> 00:22:32.941
JESSICA: I found that when I was laid off in February 2023, and I had just kind of started getting into the whole chat, chatty thing, and doing a few speaking events, and I very quickly found in my interviews that they thought I was too ambitious.
00:22:32.941 –> 00:22:41.361
JESSICA: They did not think that I was going to be a good executive assistant to them because I had gone out and developed interests and they weren’t going to have that.
00:22:41.361 –> 00:22:47.261
JESSICA: So I definitely felt like it was treated, it was used against me, that I had ambition.
00:22:47.261 –> 00:22:49.721
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:22:49.961 –> 00:22:53.041
JESSICA: I think that a lot of people have felt that way.
00:22:53.041 –> 00:22:53.901
CANDICE: Sorry, Jeremy.
00:22:53.901 –> 00:23:03.321
CANDICE: I was just saying that I think that, I think that being an executive assistant makes you an expert in business, especially at six-week level.
00:23:03.321 –> 00:23:10.081
CANDICE: I think what you are exposed to, like I definitely wouldn’t have been able to do what I’ve been able to do if I hadn’t have had the roles that I had.
00:23:10.081 –> 00:23:17.141
CANDICE: And it gave me the confidence that when I was able to play in that area and actually do the work, I was like, I can do this.
00:23:17.521 –> 00:23:22.741
CANDICE: I’m going to take these skills and I’m going to take it into my own business, which all three of us have done.
00:23:22.741 –> 00:23:24.901
CANDICE: And all three of us have been to be executive assistants.
00:23:24.901 –> 00:23:34.461
CANDICE: I truly do believe that it is the training of not having professional training, not having a degree and things like that.
00:23:34.461 –> 00:23:38.941
CANDICE: You can get the training through doing this job and be able to set up your own business.
00:23:40.221 –> 00:23:51.541
CANDICE: But you just need to be confident in it and confident in yourself and know that, like you said, Jeremy, and we’ll dive into this now about the varying costs of training and development.
00:23:51.541 –> 00:23:53.741
CANDICE: You wanted a different stream of income.
00:23:53.741 –> 00:23:56.801
CANDICE: Like you were like, I was earning too low of the family now.
00:23:56.801 –> 00:23:58.921
CANDICE: I’ve got responsibilities.
00:23:58.921 –> 00:24:00.341
CANDICE: I need another stream of income.
00:24:00.341 –> 00:24:03.221
CANDICE: So you started training.
00:24:03.221 –> 00:24:04.501
CANDICE: What was first?
00:24:04.501 –> 00:24:12.621
JEREMY: Well, to be honest, the first thing I did was, you know, we sold our house because we couldn’t afford the mortgage anymore.
00:24:13.081 –> 00:24:15.561
JEREMY: And so we sold our house, sold a bunch of our belongings.
00:24:15.561 –> 00:24:20.541
JEREMY: So Facebook Marketplace was my first extra stream of income.
00:24:20.541 –> 00:24:26.341
JEREMY: And then my second one was my brother actually sells baseball tickets.
00:24:26.341 –> 00:24:28.381
JEREMY: That’s kind of his business.
00:24:28.381 –> 00:24:35.461
JEREMY: And so my second stream of income was I bought baseball playoff tickets, and I sold baseball playoff tickets.
00:24:35.461 –> 00:24:38.341
JEREMY: So that was kind of my next stream of income for a little bit.
00:24:38.981 –> 00:24:45.661
JEREMY: Did a little bit of investing, stock market, Bitcoin, all that fun stuff.
00:24:45.661 –> 00:24:49.841
JEREMY: And then I started blogging, and I started calling…
00:24:49.841 –> 00:24:51.281
JEREMY: I didn’t know any assistants.
00:24:51.281 –> 00:24:52.701
JEREMY: I honestly did not know any assistants.
00:24:52.701 –> 00:25:01.341
JEREMY: So I started reaching out to executives that I knew because I worked for an executive, and he was connected with all these different executives.
00:25:01.341 –> 00:25:15.781
JEREMY: So I just called all these executives, and I said, hey, I’m passionate about helping assistants and their executives resist burnout, so that they can actually have a strategic partnership, and they can actually lead like they want to lead.
00:25:15.781 –> 00:25:19.841
JEREMY: They can actually accomplish their goals without burning out.
00:25:19.841 –> 00:25:25.321
JEREMY: And so I just started calling executives and say, hey, can we have lunch?
00:25:25.321 –> 00:25:27.141
JEREMY: Can I ask you about your assistant?
00:25:27.141 –> 00:25:37.741
JEREMY: So I had a couple of executives who paid me to coach them through how to work with their assistant better and then coach their assistant as well.
00:25:37.741 –> 00:25:40.021
JEREMY: So that was kind of the first thing I did.
00:25:40.021 –> 00:25:45.121
JEREMY: Then I just started blogging, getting on LinkedIn, reaching out to assistants of the world.
00:25:45.121 –> 00:25:54.601
JEREMY: And I remember I got a couple of remote, virtual, really small things that I did for free or hardly any money.
00:25:54.601 –> 00:26:04.861
JEREMY: And then randomly I got invited to, just because I had started putting myself out there, I got invited to speak at the European Central Bank for their conference for their assistance.
00:26:04.861 –> 00:26:06.901
JEREMY: And I was like, OK, this is interesting.
00:26:06.901 –> 00:26:09.741
JEREMY: And then they’re like, oh, and we’re going to fly you out and we’re going to pay you.
00:26:09.741 –> 00:26:11.161
JEREMY: And I was like, oh, OK, this is cool.
00:26:11.821 –> 00:26:20.741
JEREMY: And so I was able to take my wife out there, did a training for their assistants, had to go through the security at the European Central Bank and all this stuff.
00:26:20.741 –> 00:26:26.821
JEREMY: And then at the end of it, my wife was talking to the organizer and she’s like, you know, this is his first public speaking gig.
00:26:28.181 –> 00:26:34.941
JEREMY: And I was like, you’re not supposed to tell them it’s my first one, but at least she waited till afterwards before she said.
00:26:35.281 –> 00:26:36.721
CANDICE: We all got to have a first.
00:26:36.721 –> 00:26:37.481
JEREMY: Right, right.
00:26:37.481 –> 00:26:39.821
JEREMY: So anyway, that kind of slowly started going.
00:26:39.821 –> 00:26:43.821
JEREMY: And then that was like, I think, a year into my job at capacity.
00:26:43.821 –> 00:26:55.141
JEREMY: So I kind of just started doing a little bit of things here and there, flipping things on Facebook or baseball tickets or stocks or speaking gigs here and there.
00:26:56.621 –> 00:27:00.081
JEREMY: So I just, I just try to do a little bit of everything.
00:27:00.581 –> 00:27:03.421
CANDICE: So what made you do the podcast?
00:27:03.421 –> 00:27:05.701
JEREMY: So fast forward a few years.
00:27:07.041 –> 00:27:19.281
JEREMY: Well, backtrack, I actually used to edit podcasts and I used to edit audio and I used to do video editing and I used to be a project manager for a creative department who did videos and audio editing and all this.
00:27:19.281 –> 00:27:20.641
JEREMY: So I had some of that experience.
00:27:21.461 –> 00:27:28.321
JEREMY: And I always thought, oh, it would be fun to get back into the audio editing side, the part that I enjoy.
00:27:28.321 –> 00:27:31.481
JEREMY: But I don’t want to start a podcast and then stop.
00:27:31.481 –> 00:27:33.861
JEREMY: You know, I wanted to, if I was going to do it, I was going to do it.
00:27:33.861 –> 00:27:49.321
JEREMY: So I waited a couple of years, finally realized I think I have a big enough network that I could probably reach out and have people on the show and have enough guests to keep going because I wasn’t going to produce my own content every week with a full-time job and two little kids.
00:27:50.121 –> 00:28:02.421
JEREMY: So once I just once I got to the point is around is March 2019, I said, you know what, I think I can actually, I put a spreadsheet together, planned out every week for like a year straight.
00:28:02.421 –> 00:28:07.461
JEREMY: And I was like, I think I can actually do a year for a year.
00:28:07.461 –> 00:28:12.001
JEREMY: I think I can commit to a year of doing almost every week an episode.
00:28:12.001 –> 00:28:23.341
JEREMY: And so that’s when I that’s when I jumped in and I thought, okay, if I can do this consistently, because I don’t like doing things half-assed, like I like to really go in and do it full on and do it well.
00:28:23.341 –> 00:28:27.941
JEREMY: And so I was like, if I’m going to do this, I want to do it well and I want to stay consistent.
00:28:28.241 –> 00:28:32.821
JEREMY: And I knew that there was a gap in the podcast world for assistant podcasts.
00:28:32.821 –> 00:28:34.601
JEREMY: There was a few out there.
00:28:34.601 –> 00:28:35.621
JEREMY: Some of them were terrible.
00:28:35.621 –> 00:28:39.381
JEREMY: Some of them were good, but not updated very often.
00:28:39.381 –> 00:28:43.401
JEREMY: And so I thought I could jump in and do that and reach more assistants.
00:28:44.081 –> 00:28:49.741
JEREMY: And then, of course, my ultimate mission is to help assistants resist burnout and lead well.
00:28:50.801 –> 00:29:04.101
JEREMY: But the podcast was just another, if I kind of zoom in on how do I reach more people, how do I help more assistants and grow the business in the way that I can sustain it.
00:29:04.101 –> 00:29:08.961
JEREMY: Podcast is one of those credibility pillars, if you will, that I decided to do.
00:29:09.081 –> 00:29:12.141
CANDICE: So when did the training and event start?
00:29:12.141 –> 00:29:13.481
CANDICE: After the podcast?
00:29:13.981 –> 00:29:20.641
JEREMY: It was a little bit of coaching, a little bit of events here and there, mostly virtual before that.
00:29:21.281 –> 00:29:37.381
JEREMY: Because 2019 March was when I started the podcast, COVID was March 2020, and so I had my very first live event in Kansas City with Bonnie Lowe-Crayman, and there was 170 people in the room, and two weeks later, the world shut down.
00:29:38.361 –> 00:29:48.981
JEREMY: And so, I had already been very online focused, so I was able to adapt, and I didn’t have to adapt that much, I guess.
00:29:48.981 –> 00:29:54.961
JEREMY: So, yeah, it kind of slowly happened in that frame, but I’d have to look back.
00:29:54.961 –> 00:30:00.761
JEREMY: I think 2019 is probably when it picked up.
00:30:00.901 –> 00:30:10.981
JEREMY: I like to tell people, I’d have to look at the actual numbers, but 2016, I lost money, 2017, I lost money, 2018, I made a little bit of money.
00:30:10.981 –> 00:30:13.801
JEREMY: So my wife was like, oh, you actually made a little bit of money this year.
00:30:13.801 –> 00:30:16.341
JEREMY: We actually have to pay a little bit of taxes because you didn’t lose money.
00:30:16.341 –> 00:30:17.841
JEREMY: And I’m like, yeah.
00:30:17.841 –> 00:30:22.561
JEREMY: And in the next couple of years, it just blew up and it’s been very blessed.
00:30:22.561 –> 00:30:31.481
JEREMY: And as a side note, one of the things that I’m passionate about, and my wife and I, so she coaches at the local high school.
00:30:31.541 –> 00:30:36.201
JEREMY: It’s the most diverse high school in the state of Missouri.
00:30:36.201 –> 00:30:46.601
JEREMY: And she coaches track and she has athletes who, they’re failing classes and they show up late to school, if at all.
00:30:46.601 –> 00:30:53.261
JEREMY: And you find out they’re living in a hotel because they can’t afford living situations and all this stuff.
00:30:53.261 –> 00:30:58.641
JEREMY: And so my wife and I are passionate about helping those who are really struggling.
00:30:58.861 –> 00:31:20.461
JEREMY: And one of the ways that I’ve done that is I’ve tried to set up all these different streams of income and investments and business categories so that we can have those funds so that she doesn’t have to work and she can go do these volunteer or super low-paying part-time gigs at.
00:31:20.521 –> 00:31:22.361
CANDICE: And raising two boys.
00:31:22.361 –> 00:31:25.621
JEREMY: And of course, raising two kids is her full-time job.
00:31:25.621 –> 00:31:26.641
JESSICA: Yes.
00:31:26.641 –> 00:31:27.761
CANDICE: Let’s not forget that.
00:31:27.761 –> 00:31:29.121
CANDICE: That is a job.
00:31:29.121 –> 00:31:30.601
CANDICE: Yes.
00:31:30.601 –> 00:31:38.781
CANDICE: So let’s talk about different options of training and different categories of training and whatnot.
00:31:38.781 –> 00:31:52.141
CANDICE: So in my world of admin, which is mainly Australia, it’s now moved into the UK and whatnot, I do not see big budgets being paid by companies for events.
00:31:53.561 –> 00:31:54.281
CANDICE: Less and less.
00:31:54.281 –> 00:32:12.861
CANDICE: Like there was an event in Australia recently where it was a dinner and it was 300, a lunch, $300 to attend and you got to listen to a guest speaker and have the lunch and get, it was $300 Australian dollars, so you want to convert to Google, everyone.
00:32:12.861 –> 00:32:29.661
CANDICE: But that’s not a huge amount of money, but it did not sell well because no companies were willing to sponsor that, because one, it was a lunch, so they were like, I’m not paying for your lunch, and two, they didn’t see the value in it.
00:32:29.661 –> 00:32:47.021
CANDICE: They don’t understand that going to this, you would have networked with all these people that you would have been able to have contact with after and had been able to have that warm introduction, say, hey, I sat with you at this event, or I don’t need to tell this audience what networking is.
00:32:47.021 –> 00:32:56.981
CANDICE: But it was a big talked about thing because it was $300 for a lunch, and people were like, who actually paid that?
00:32:56.981 –> 00:33:01.341
CANDICE: That was the sentiment in Australia, so that was $300 Australian dollars.
00:33:01.341 –> 00:33:09.001
CANDICE: In the UK, there was something, I can’t remember what kind of event, but it was something like 500 pounds.
00:33:09.001 –> 00:33:13.821
CANDICE: 500 pounds is 1000 Australian dollars.
00:33:13.821 –> 00:33:16.061
CANDICE: For everybody else, Google it.
00:33:16.061 –> 00:33:18.561
CANDICE: But it was a lot of money.
00:33:19.921 –> 00:33:29.661
CANDICE: I’m in a group in London, that is British EAs and I put it in there and said, is this a lot of money?
00:33:30.281 –> 00:33:34.521
CANDICE: Every single one of them was like, yes, absolutely not what I’d be able to afford that.
00:33:34.521 –> 00:33:38.381
CANDICE: So I’m seeing all these people saying, no, can’t afford it, can’t afford it.
00:33:38.381 –> 00:33:39.721
CANDICE: Companies aren’t paying for it.
00:33:39.721 –> 00:33:41.801
CANDICE: Some people are paying out of their own pockets.
00:33:41.801 –> 00:33:54.501
CANDICE: When we talked about it, you were saying you had completely different experience in that people were getting companies to pay for the events that you’ve been putting on.
00:33:54.501 –> 00:33:55.641
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:33:55.641 –> 00:33:55.821
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:33:55.821 –> 00:33:57.441
JEREMY: I mean, it just really depends on the event.
00:33:57.441 –> 00:33:58.441
JEREMY: It depends on the city.
00:33:58.441 –> 00:34:03.961
JEREMY: It depends on the industry, what you’re offering.
00:34:03.961 –> 00:34:08.381
JEREMY: I’ve had, I’ve, I’ve trial through trial and error over the years.
00:34:08.381 –> 00:34:09.081
JEREMY: I’ve had events.
00:34:09.081 –> 00:34:12.301
JEREMY: I’ve had online events for $20 that didn’t sell well.
00:34:12.301 –> 00:34:17.241
JEREMY: And I’ve had online events for $1,500 that sold great, you know.
00:34:17.241 –> 00:34:25.661
JEREMY: And it’s like, you just have to trial and error as a business owner and figure out what, what people are able to pay or what companies are able to pay.
00:34:25.661 –> 00:34:37.421
JEREMY: But also, I think the big thing is really educating the assistants on how to ask and how to build that business case to their companies to, in order for them to pay.
00:34:37.421 –> 00:34:52.301
JEREMY: But I think the bottom line is in the business side of things, I think it’s a matter of you’re going to charge what people will pay and you’re going to charge what you think it’s worth based on your time and the expertise that you’re offering.
00:34:52.301 –> 00:34:59.841
JEREMY: But you’re also going to charge just like much like if you’re a virtual assistant, you know, OK, yeah, I think I’m worth $25 an hour.
00:35:00.121 –> 00:35:02.781
JEREMY: I think that’s the skill set, that’s what I want to do.
00:35:02.781 –> 00:35:14.601
JEREMY: However, I need to charge $45 an hour because I got to pay taxes out of that, I got to pay insurance out of that, I got to pay software expenses out of that, and so on.
00:35:14.601 –> 00:35:20.501
JEREMY: So maybe you think your time is worth $25 an hour, but you can’t just charge $25 an hour.
00:35:20.501 –> 00:35:23.181
JEREMY: And actually have a sustaining business that’s going to keep going.
00:35:23.181 –> 00:35:25.361
JEREMY: And so it’s through trial and error.
00:35:25.361 –> 00:35:31.961
JEREMY: And I think the big thing again, educate people on how to ask and realize that there are different levers that you can pull.
00:35:31.961 –> 00:35:50.621
JEREMY: And so your company may not have a professional development budget for assistance, but the department that you work in may have a furthering education line item that you can pull from to cover those expenses.
00:35:50.621 –> 00:36:02.841
JEREMY: And I also think that it’s important for people like me and other assistant community thought leaders, whatever you want to call us, like you two as well.
00:36:02.841 –> 00:36:06.941
JEREMY: I think it’s important for us to have a variety of price points.
00:36:06.941 –> 00:36:19.761
JEREMY: You know, like I’ve published 286 and counting episodes of the podcast for the last, since 2019, and you don’t have to pay a dime to listen to those.
00:36:19.761 –> 00:36:24.541
JEREMY: You know, like you can buy my book, which has all my tactics and strategies.
00:36:24.841 –> 00:36:27.141
JEREMY: It’s a guide for being an assistant.
00:36:27.141 –> 00:36:33.041
JEREMY: You can buy it for $6 or whatever on Amazon Kindle or $15 if you want the paperback.
00:36:34.541 –> 00:36:39.081
JEREMY: And then I also have a lot of chapters of my book or free blog posts on my blog.
00:36:39.081 –> 00:37:03.441
JEREMY: And I think that when it comes to training, people can find the information they want and they need with the amount of information that’s available online, ChatGPT, Google Search, LinkedIn, or YouTube learning, you know, like my brother rehabbed his house and he figured out how to do everything just by watching free YouTube videos.
00:37:03.441 –> 00:37:08.641
JEREMY: You know, like, so I think that you can get anything you want.
00:37:08.641 –> 00:37:12.061
JEREMY: However, people will pay a premium.
00:37:12.061 –> 00:37:26.981
JEREMY: If you can guide them throughout the journey, step by step, and really focus them in on here’s here’s where I’m at point A and I want to get to point D, E, F.
00:37:27.221 –> 00:37:30.561
JEREMY: You’re the one that I want to get me from A to F.
00:37:30.561 –> 00:37:35.641
JEREMY: I don’t want to sit there trying to be overwhelmed with information overload on free resources.
00:37:35.641 –> 00:37:39.921
JEREMY: I want to pay you to get me from this point to this point.
00:37:39.921 –> 00:37:44.421
CANDICE: And Jessica, what’s your point of view on that and in your community and your experience with that?
00:37:46.361 –> 00:37:48.601
JESSICA: Let’s take a little bit of a different approach.
00:37:48.601 –> 00:37:52.181
JESSICA: And that like I recently I did launch a community in the past couple of months.
00:37:52.181 –> 00:37:53.501
JESSICA: I keep it a very low cost.
00:37:53.501 –> 00:37:55.561
JESSICA: It’s $10 to join the community.
00:37:55.561 –> 00:37:57.581
JESSICA: I’m offering trainings, doing all kinds of things.
00:37:57.581 –> 00:38:11.221
JESSICA: The problem is the feedback that I got from people when I was trying to make a decision about what I wanted to do with the community was, you know, how many people were just like gatecapped out of like the good information because they can’t afford an $800 a year membership.
00:38:11.701 –> 00:38:21.701
JESSICA: And as someone who only got like educational funding when I started working at a tech company, and I was like, hey, they get tech funding.
00:38:21.701 –> 00:38:22.401
JESSICA: Can I have that?
00:38:22.401 –> 00:38:24.001
JESSICA: And they were like, sir, why not?
00:38:24.001 –> 00:38:25.781
JESSICA: Like, and I negotiated it.
00:38:25.781 –> 00:38:29.021
JESSICA: But, you know, I’ve never had a company want to invest in me.
00:38:29.021 –> 00:38:34.981
JESSICA: I had never had a company say like, yeah, let’s spend X thousand dollars on your education.
00:38:34.981 –> 00:38:42.341
JESSICA: So in the work that I do, it’s like I talked to so many admins day in and day out that, you know, they’re barely getting by.
00:38:42.341 –> 00:38:44.141
JESSICA: They are not making a living wage.
00:38:44.141 –> 00:38:50.661
JESSICA: Like it is, let me say that we have that EA How To, Alicia Fairfalk did her EA How To survey recently.
00:38:50.661 –> 00:38:55.081
JESSICA: And the average salary in the US for an administrative professional is $86,212.
00:38:56.961 –> 00:39:01.201
JESSICA: And that is assuming that they, you know, basically have like a spouse to help support them.
00:39:01.201 –> 00:39:07.421
JESSICA: I think I saw a survey recently that said you need to make like $175,000 in the United States to live a comfortable life.
00:39:07.881 –> 00:39:10.761
JESSICA: Like it’s not set up for us to thrive.
00:39:10.761 –> 00:39:22.841
JESSICA: And when you take in the fact that like child care and all of these other things are going to come first before me spending an extra $1,000 on like some like networking event or something is, it’s just not plausible.
00:39:22.841 –> 00:39:32.801
JESSICA: And it ends up doing what the rich have always done, which is it said only a few of us are valuable, only a few of us get this education.
00:39:32.801 –> 00:39:36.421
JESSICA: And then we stand around and people go, well, why can’t people advance?
00:39:36.481 –> 00:39:41.961
JESSICA: I don’t understand why they can’t do more, they can’t advocate for themselves in their careers.
00:39:42.061 –> 00:39:45.561
JESSICA: It’s like, let’s all stop and think.
00:39:45.561 –> 00:39:47.881
JESSICA: They probably weren’t taught that language growing up.
00:39:47.881 –> 00:39:50.741
JESSICA: They probably weren’t taught to advocate for themselves.
00:39:52.421 –> 00:40:01.481
JESSICA: It took me years to get to a point where I felt comfortable voicing what I needed and what I wanted in the office, because I had been continuously made to feel like I was an idiot by people that I supported.
00:40:03.421 –> 00:40:09.121
JESSICA: So for me, it’s just like, how can I keep things as most affordable as possible?
00:40:09.121 –> 00:40:11.801
JESSICA: Because I think at the day, I’m just one person.
00:40:11.801 –> 00:40:18.661
JESSICA: I, yes, I’m considered an expert in our industry and I have a lot of knowledge, but there’s so much to learn.
00:40:18.661 –> 00:40:23.521
JESSICA: I don’t want to charge you an obscene amount just so you can take away one small thing.
00:40:23.521 –> 00:40:25.341
JESSICA: But I don’t know.
00:40:25.341 –> 00:40:29.461
JESSICA: I just, like I said, I try and keep things what I would pay at the end of the day.
00:40:30.941 –> 00:40:32.701
CANDICE: I’m not being an asshole in saying this.
00:40:32.701 –> 00:40:34.621
CANDICE: This is a legit question.
00:40:34.621 –> 00:40:42.421
CANDICE: In Canada and America, do you have to be certified to be a coach or a trainer or anything?
00:40:42.421 –> 00:40:42.681
JESSICA: No.
00:40:42.681 –> 00:40:43.581
JEREMY: No.
00:40:43.581 –> 00:40:45.121
CANDICE: So there’s no certification.
00:40:45.121 –> 00:40:50.081
CANDICE: Well, there might be a certification, but there’s not like you have to show that you did this course.
00:40:50.081 –> 00:40:52.881
JESSICA: It is not a licensed profession.
00:40:52.881 –> 00:40:53.441
CANDICE: Okay.
00:40:53.581 –> 00:40:55.401
JEREMY: Yeah, like a therapist would be a license.
00:40:55.401 –> 00:40:58.681
JEREMY: You can’t call yourself a therapist unless you have the credentials.
00:40:58.681 –> 00:41:00.841
JESSICA: Yeah, the life coach.
00:41:00.841 –> 00:41:01.041
JEREMY: Right.
00:41:01.041 –> 00:41:08.321
CANDICE: So when you’re doing CPD points, I see, things like that.
00:41:08.841 –> 00:41:12.501
CANDICE: Is that because that’s accredited to something?
00:41:12.501 –> 00:41:14.241
CANDICE: Is that not an American thing?
00:41:14.241 –> 00:41:18.881
JESSICA: I think probably the equivalent is when I did some stuff for IAP, it was credentials.
00:41:18.881 –> 00:41:21.621
JESSICA: You could say, oh, you get half a point or a point.
00:41:25.001 –> 00:41:25.141
JESSICA: Yeah.
00:41:25.141 –> 00:41:33.561
JESSICA: They had certain guidelines that you’re supposed to teach to in the amount of time that you need to teach, and then they would weight it and say, okay, that’s three points towards your continuing education.
00:41:33.561 –> 00:41:34.741
CANDICE: Okay.
00:41:34.741 –> 00:41:36.161
CANDICE: So that’s how that works.
00:41:36.161 –> 00:41:36.441
CANDICE: Okay.
00:41:36.441 –> 00:41:37.881
CANDICE: That makes sense.
00:41:37.881 –> 00:41:41.061
JESSICA: So I can teach and give credentials, but they’ll get their creds.
00:41:41.061 –> 00:41:46.181
JESSICA: But if somebody came in and did a wellness talk, it wouldn’t count.
00:41:46.241 –> 00:41:48.141
<v SPEAKER_2>It’s just kind of hard.
00:41:48.141 –> 00:41:48.741
CANDICE: Okay.
00:41:48.741 –> 00:41:49.741
JEREMY: Okay.
00:41:49.741 –> 00:41:55.461
JEREMY: But that’s more for the organizations that run those certifications like IWP or whatever.
00:41:56.021 –> 00:42:00.361
JEREMY: That’s not corporate America saying, oh, this is that.
00:42:00.361 –> 00:42:01.201
CANDICE: Okay.
00:42:01.201 –> 00:42:12.621
JEREMY: And I will say too, in America, I think I failed to mention this, but there’s this idea, the American dream is like, okay, well, I got a raise, so I’m going to buy a bigger house.
00:42:12.621 –> 00:42:13.641
JEREMY: Oh, I got another raise.
00:42:13.781 –> 00:42:17.821
JEREMY: I got another raise, so I’m going to take out a lease on a car that I can’t afford.
00:42:17.821 –> 00:42:22.381
JEREMY: Oh, I got another raise, so I’m going to move to a nicer neighborhood with a nicer school and a bigger house.
00:42:22.381 –> 00:42:23.341
JEREMY: I got another.
00:42:23.341 –> 00:42:34.281
JEREMY: So like, you raise your income and then you raise your cost of living to match or even, unfortunately, that’s why there’s so much debt in America.
00:42:34.341 –> 00:42:36.501
JEREMY: More than that.
00:42:36.501 –> 00:42:46.301
JEREMY: My philosophy has always been to help assistants have the confidence to ask for what they deserve and to negotiate their compensation.
00:42:47.821 –> 00:42:50.201
JEREMY: If you don’t ask all those things.
00:42:50.201 –> 00:43:05.581
JEREMY: But also, when I coach assistants one-on-one, I walk them through, I’m like, listen, you live in Seattle, and so your cost of living is higher than this other assistant that I coach that lives in rural southern Missouri.
00:43:05.581 –> 00:43:10.921
JEREMY: And so you have to have, you have to do the calculations on cost of living as well.
00:43:10.921 –> 00:43:22.861
JEREMY: But all that to say, I’ve been about, with my wife and I and much to the chagrin of my in-laws, we’ve been about when I make more money, I don’t go buy a bigger house and move to a nicer neighborhood.
00:43:23.261 –> 00:43:38.841
JEREMY: We intentionally chose a rougher part of town that had a not as nice blocks and a couple of crack houses, literally two blocks away that got busted a year after we moved in.
00:43:39.861 –> 00:43:44.641
JEREMY: But we wanted to be in a diverse community, for our kids to be raised in a diverse community.
00:43:47.561 –> 00:43:50.541
JEREMY: That’s our passion as a family.
00:43:50.541 –> 00:43:56.921
JEREMY: But financially, I also am very passionate about, I’m trying to lower my cost of living as much as I can.
00:43:57.541 –> 00:44:01.501
JEREMY: I don’t care if I’m making more than I’ve ever had.
00:44:01.821 –> 00:44:04.741
JEREMY: I’m still trying to keep my costs down.
00:44:04.741 –> 00:44:08.561
JEREMY: So I don’t borrow for buying a car.
00:44:08.561 –> 00:44:10.921
JEREMY: Like I only buy cars if I have the cash to pay for it.
00:44:10.921 –> 00:44:12.161
JEREMY: You know what I mean?
00:44:12.161 –> 00:44:27.081
JEREMY: So there’s that kind of financial literacy that has not been focused on in American education, which means you have a lot of people in corporate America, assistance included, who don’t have that training.
00:44:27.081 –> 00:44:35.141
JEREMY: And I think that’s a big factor in the whole salaries and raises and all this kind of stuff.
00:44:35.141 –> 00:44:40.621
JEREMY: And you mentioned it takes $175,000 to live comfortably in the US.
00:44:40.621 –> 00:44:46.301
JEREMY: Now, if you’re in San Francisco or New York, then at least that.
00:44:46.301 –> 00:44:54.841
JEREMY: But if you’re in Kansas City, Missouri, you can be doing really, really, really well and have a very nice life for that kind of salary.
00:44:55.981 –> 00:44:57.201
JEREMY: And so, anyway.
00:44:57.201 –> 00:45:01.221
CANDICE: I just want to flag something, is that you two are both married.
00:45:02.781 –> 00:45:04.401
JESSICA: Yes.
00:45:04.401 –> 00:45:06.981
CANDICE: And share costs and share responsibilities.
00:45:06.981 –> 00:45:12.241
CANDICE: And Jessica, you’ve got a child that you share with another, her father and their father.
00:45:12.241 –> 00:45:15.361
CANDICE: And there’s a lot of dual stuff in this.
00:45:15.361 –> 00:45:16.681
CANDICE: I am a single person.
00:45:17.281 –> 00:45:21.321
CANDICE: And I find life tough on a single wage.
00:45:21.321 –> 00:45:31.341
CANDICE: I struggle with everything, just being just me, paying for things, just me, doing that, just me, putting petrol in the car.
00:45:31.341 –> 00:45:36.981
CANDICE: It’s a very different way of living when it’s you, just you.
00:45:37.261 –> 00:45:43.381
CANDICE: And so, I want to like speak up for the single people and particularly the single moms that are really struggling.
00:45:43.381 –> 00:45:45.241
CANDICE: Hats off to you, ladies.
00:45:45.241 –> 00:45:46.441
CANDICE: And single dads, if you’re out there.
00:45:47.901 –> 00:45:55.321
CANDICE: But I just want to flag that in that you two are coming from a very privileged position.
00:45:56.661 –> 00:46:01.681
CANDICE: It’s tough for single people, no matter where you are.
00:46:01.681 –> 00:46:04.561
CANDICE: Because I’m talking Australia, I’m talking London, and I’m talking…
00:46:04.561 –> 00:46:11.741
CANDICE: And I know they’re two very privileged, first world countries, and we’re not talking about the poor people that are in Gaza and things like that.
00:46:11.741 –> 00:46:13.721
CANDICE: Obviously, that’s horrible.
00:46:13.961 –> 00:46:25.461
CANDICE: But I just want to flag that, yes, that whilst that all sounds right in corporate America and everything, people that are doing it alone really do struggle financially.
00:46:25.681 –> 00:46:34.321
CANDICE: And I have an admin group myself that is $306, Australian dollars a year, if you want to join.
00:46:34.321 –> 00:46:37.021
CANDICE: And people have said to me, I can’t afford it this year.
00:46:37.321 –> 00:46:38.361
CANDICE: I can’t afford it this year.
00:46:38.401 –> 00:46:47.861
CANDICE: And we also provide a letter that you can submit about requesting personal career development.
00:46:47.861 –> 00:46:50.401
CANDICE: And we try and do everything we can to try and help these people.
00:46:50.401 –> 00:46:54.141
CANDICE: But the fact is, it’s just not viable this year.
00:46:54.141 –> 00:46:58.141
CANDICE: There’s just a lot of people struggling financially.
00:46:58.141 –> 00:47:04.741
JESSICA: Yeah, the only way I wanted to add is that, obviously, we have very different levels of privileges.
00:47:04.741 –> 00:47:06.081
JESSICA: I used to make pretty good money.
00:47:06.081 –> 00:47:07.161
JESSICA: I lost my job.
00:47:07.261 –> 00:47:08.641
JESSICA: I had to build a business from scratch.
00:47:08.641 –> 00:47:12.001
JESSICA: I had to adjust my level of living.
00:47:12.001 –> 00:47:14.661
JESSICA: You cannot budget your way out of poverty.
00:47:14.661 –> 00:47:25.921
JESSICA: At the end of the day, if you are not getting paid enough, that you can pay for your mortgage, which has gone up because it was an adjustable mortgage, because that’s all you could qualify for.
00:47:25.921 –> 00:47:34.501
JESSICA: If you have to pay $2,500 a month for childcare, because you don’t have a partner and so you still have to pay for childcare so that you can go to work to make that money.
00:47:36.141 –> 00:47:38.901
JESSICA: Insurance, not every company provides good insurance.
00:47:39.581 –> 00:47:40.541
JESSICA: You’re paying different things.
00:47:40.541 –> 00:47:49.681
JESSICA: If you’re medically fragile and you have health care issues like in the United States or health costs, there are so many bills.
00:47:49.721 –> 00:47:59.501
JESSICA: It’s not about, like America loves to suggest this idea of that, like, it’s just about not working hard enough or it’s not about advocating for yourself enough.
00:47:59.501 –> 00:48:09.061
JESSICA: It’s all these things while continuing to slap you down and say, no, you can’t get this better job because we won’t help you with child care.
00:48:09.121 –> 00:48:12.461
JESSICA: So you continue to stay trapped at where you can.
00:48:12.461 –> 00:48:17.581
JESSICA: I have a peer who’s trapped in a job because it has good health care and her spouse needs a transplant or something.
00:48:18.361 –> 00:48:24.621
JESSICA: There’s all kinds of different scenarios where it’s like just budgeting.
00:48:24.621 –> 00:48:31.241
JESSICA: This isn’t the situation of Dave Ramsey being like, you just need to not use your credit cards and things like that.
00:48:31.241 –> 00:48:37.461
JESSICA: This is a situation of the cost of living in the United States and Canada has inflated massively.
00:48:38.561 –> 00:48:48.341
JESSICA: I should not be making what I made at my first executive assistant job at the same amount that my mother-in-law made in her first executive assistant job 30 years ago.
00:48:48.341 –> 00:48:56.041
JESSICA: The rate of pay has not kept up with inflation, and that is the real issue at the end of the day.
00:48:56.041 –> 00:48:57.401
JESSICA: There’s so many more costs.
00:48:57.401 –> 00:48:59.881
JESSICA: Now we need internet, we need phones, we need all these different things.
00:48:59.881 –> 00:49:06.241
JESSICA: It’s just a completely different environment than even when I entered the workforce in 2008.
00:49:06.801 –> 00:49:18.041
JESSICA: So I think it’s like really, it’s not about people are bad with their money, because I’ve even seen like in groups like, hey, what kind of like financial literacy can we offer to our EA team because they’re all struggling?
00:49:18.041 –> 00:49:22.381
JESSICA: And it’s like, no, the answer is actually unionize.
00:49:22.381 –> 00:49:29.881
JESSICA: The answer is there’s more strength when you guys band together and say, we’re not going to do this until you pay us a higher wage.
00:49:29.881 –> 00:49:37.361
JESSICA: And that’s really where we’re gonna see change starting to happen is when people start doing collective bargaining and saying, I’m not going to put up with this anymore.
00:49:37.361 –> 00:49:39.801
JESSICA: And there’s strength in numbers.
00:49:39.801 –> 00:49:46.761
JESSICA: So that’s why it’s important to have these conversations and say, how can we support this joint vision?
00:49:46.761 –> 00:49:49.381
CANDICE: Do you think that could be a thing?
00:49:49.401 –> 00:49:50.401
CANDICE: Unionizing?
00:49:50.401 –> 00:49:52.241
CANDICE: Do you think like, is that an American…
00:49:52.241 –> 00:49:53.561
CANDICE: We’re sticking on the American thing here.
00:49:53.561 –> 00:49:57.581
JEREMY: I was gonna say, we’re gonna need a whole other podcast episode to talk about all this.
00:49:57.581 –> 00:49:58.601
CANDICE: Is that a thing?
00:49:58.601 –> 00:50:01.481
CANDICE: Is that something that couldn’t happen for me in Australia and the UK?
00:50:04.101 –> 00:50:07.301
CANDICE: We don’t need these insurances because we can get free health care.
00:50:07.301 –> 00:50:11.561
CANDICE: We can come into a hospital without falling off and then we’ll put it back on.
00:50:11.581 –> 00:50:13.561
CANDICE: It’s a very different story in America.
00:50:13.561 –> 00:50:16.881
JESSICA: You don’t need a union to do collective bargaining.
00:50:16.881 –> 00:50:21.501
JESSICA: You can start talking to your coworkers about what you are getting paid.
00:50:21.501 –> 00:50:27.221
JESSICA: Because they discourage you from discussing what you get paid because they don’t want you to know that they’re paying you less than somebody else.
00:50:27.421 –> 00:50:28.601
JESSICA: So they make you think you’re not allowed to.
00:50:28.861 –> 00:50:32.061
JESSICA: You’re legally allowed in the United States and Canada to discuss your wages.
00:50:32.061 –> 00:50:33.241
JESSICA: They cannot punish you.
00:50:33.241 –> 00:50:35.421
JESSICA: So talk to your coworkers about what they’re getting paid.
00:50:35.421 –> 00:50:41.901
JESSICA: Because you’ll find very quickly there is a lot of times a disparity within the same pay band.
00:50:41.901 –> 00:50:45.881
JESSICA: So that’s a really great way is just kind of start talking to your peers more.
00:50:47.021 –> 00:50:51.701
JEREMY: Yeah, I think that I think there’s so many different ways to tackle the issue.
00:50:51.701 –> 00:50:54.841
JEREMY: And I think that I think Jessica, you’re right.
00:50:54.841 –> 00:51:14.281
JEREMY: I think there’s there’s a lot of layers to the whole, you know, whether it’s poverty, whether it’s, you know, unions, whether it’s insurance issues, whether it’s political issues, whatever it is, it’s a battle day in and day out.
00:51:14.941 –> 00:51:25.561
JEREMY: And some of us, myself, for sure, with the white male in America privilege, have it easier, unfortunately, than others.
00:51:25.561 –> 00:51:30.841
JEREMY: And I’ve never been one to deny that I do have that privilege.
00:51:30.841 –> 00:51:41.161
JEREMY: But I have been one that’s, that’s tried my darndest to do what I can to help those that don’t have the privilege with the resources that I’ve been blessed with.
00:51:41.441 –> 00:52:01.981
JEREMY: And I, I think that, you know, some people would, you know, have told me in the past and, and have wished that I would speak out on certain topics or use my platform for, for different, you know, causes, if you will.
00:52:01.981 –> 00:52:16.341
JEREMY: And I think that, you know, I’ve chosen to focus on kind of a narrow, narrow focus on helping assistants gain confidence, grow their compensation and be the leaders that I know they are.
00:52:17.661 –> 00:52:32.041
JEREMY: And that’s why I’ve highlighted people like you two and hundreds of other assistants on my show that are passionate about different subjects and different concerns in the, in the assistant world and beyond.
00:52:33.561 –> 00:52:45.481
JEREMY: But I try to do the best I can with what I think that I have to offer and then use the resources that I have to help those who aren’t as fortunate.
00:52:48.021 –> 00:52:52.841
CANDICE: Again, not being a dick when I’m saying this, because you can never tell when you’re hearing people or their faces.
00:52:52.841 –> 00:52:54.441
CANDICE: You can’t see their faces or anything.
00:52:54.441 –> 00:52:56.241
CANDICE: But what do you provide?
00:52:56.241 –> 00:53:08.561
CANDICE: Like do you have templates that are like, like I provide a template that’s, that helps people go to their executive and says fill in the blanks, and request for compensation to go to a conference?
00:53:08.561 –> 00:53:36.441
JEREMY: Yeah, I have a template as well, Google Doc that I customize for each of the events that I put on, or the coaching sessions, or whatnot, and it just is a letter, essentially, or an email essentially to their executive or their HR team, and they fill in the blank on, they’re customized it to fit their context, and that helps them ask for more money or for professional development dollars, et cetera.
00:53:37.621 –> 00:54:02.821
JEREMY: I’ve got a very affordable resume course that I put together with my friend, Al Hussein, with a template that you can copy and paste, and a video of walking through line-by-line how to craft your resume so that you can get that callback, and got negotiation templates and courses, all different price ranges, different resources like that.
00:54:02.821 –> 00:54:10.001
JEREMY: I think the coaching that I do one-on-one is 99% of the time.
00:54:10.001 –> 00:54:29.641
JEREMY: Assistants come to me because they want more confidence, and whether they want more confidence to ask for more money, or whether they want more confidence to get that promotion, or they just want more confidence because they’re down on themselves and insecure, and they just want to be reminded that they have what it takes.
00:54:30.301 –> 00:54:34.141
JEREMY: That’s what I do in my more one-on-one resources.
00:54:35.721 –> 00:54:36.361
JEREMY: But, yeah, I just-
00:54:36.361 –> 00:54:47.161
CANDICE: Do you feel like you should have an obligation to be more talking about women’s KP gap and things like that since 98% of the profession is women?
00:54:47.161 –> 00:54:53.581
CANDICE: Or do you feel that because you’re highlighting these other people, and we’ll go into that next about some of the thought leaders in this space.
00:54:54.301 –> 00:54:56.861
CANDICE: Don’t worry, I won’t keep you all night.
00:54:58.721 –> 00:55:01.061
CANDICE: Do you feel a responsibility in that space?
00:55:01.801 –> 00:55:03.961
CANDICE: Because it’s 98% women?
00:55:03.961 –> 00:55:04.181
JEREMY: Yeah.
00:55:04.401 –> 00:55:22.621
JEREMY: I’ve put together about four or five free webinar training sessions over the last four or five years where we had, I think, the most recent one last year, we had 900 people register and we basically talked about how to be confident and negotiate for what you’re worth.
00:55:23.321 –> 00:55:35.441
JEREMY: And we talk about the gender pay gap, we talk about, you know, the fact that the number one reason you are paid less is because you didn’t ask for more.
00:55:35.441 –> 00:55:41.161
JEREMY: And there’s lots of different templates and resources that I’ve done.
00:55:41.161 –> 00:55:56.301
JEREMY: To be honest, I haven’t done as much in the last year or two just because I’ve been so focused on my day job and my kids’ sports practices and tournaments that I’ve just been trying to put out a podcast episode and keep that going.
00:55:56.301 –> 00:56:09.561
JEREMY: And but yeah, I think someday if I get to leave my day job and do this full time, then I’ll definitely be doing more content like that.
00:56:09.561 –> 00:56:14.761
JEREMY: But like I said, I just try to, I have a limited amount of time every week to focus on this.
00:56:14.761 –> 00:56:18.161
JEREMY: And I try to do what I can do as much as I can.
00:56:20.121 –> 00:56:26.921
JEREMY: And it’s women, because it’s 98 percent of the assistants are women.
00:56:26.921 –> 00:56:39.621
JEREMY: But you don’t hear me talking about gender a lot because I believe that the, like we were talking about earlier, you mentioned something like there’s nobody out there saying, I want to be an assistant.
00:56:39.621 –> 00:56:42.261
JEREMY: The young people aren’t saying I want to be an assistant.
00:56:42.261 –> 00:56:50.001
JEREMY: And the reason is because, in my opinion, is because we aren’t out there having these clear levels and titles.
00:56:50.001 –> 00:56:52.221
JEREMY: If you want to be a salesperson, it’s very clear.
00:56:52.221 –> 00:56:54.541
JEREMY: If you make more sales, you move up to this level.
00:56:54.541 –> 00:56:56.421
JEREMY: If you close more deals, you move up to this level.
00:56:56.421 –> 00:56:58.441
JEREMY: If you’re in marketing, it’s very clear.
00:56:58.441 –> 00:57:03.361
JEREMY: This is the entry-level marketing job, this is the next level, and then this is what you need to do.
00:57:03.361 –> 00:57:05.341
JEREMY: And if you’re a developer, it’s very clear.
00:57:05.341 –> 00:57:08.701
JEREMY: You need to learn this code, or this language, this coding language.
00:57:08.701 –> 00:57:13.781
JEREMY: And if you can, if you’re proficient in this language, in this type of project, then you’ll move up to this level.
00:57:13.941 –> 00:57:15.901
JEREMY: But in the assistant world, it has not been clear.
00:57:15.901 –> 00:57:25.621
JEREMY: And so, of course, if you’re a young person that wants to have aspirations of a successful career with growth opportunities, of course, you’re not going to think of the assistant role.
00:57:25.621 –> 00:57:27.181
JESSICA: Yep.
00:57:27.181 –> 00:57:29.681
CANDICE: Jessica, anything to add on that?
00:57:31.581 –> 00:57:40.741
CANDICE: So I want to just quickly, because I know we’re on time here, but the ugly side of thought leadership in the admin space.
00:57:40.741 –> 00:57:42.201
CANDICE: I’d like to get your views on this.
00:57:42.481 –> 00:57:49.601
CANDICE: So we just interviewed, I guess, oh, should we say her name yet?
00:57:49.601 –> 00:57:51.541
CANDICE: Yeah, because it’ll be out one time, this comes out.
00:57:51.541 –> 00:57:53.181
CANDICE: Yeah.
00:57:53.181 –> 00:58:07.821
CANDICE: Dominique, who is a Chief of Staff, who made a post on LinkedIn about the difference between Chief of Staff and assistants, and it got a fair bit of traction and whatnot.
00:58:07.821 –> 00:58:11.341
CANDICE: Someone who’s considered a thought leader in this space attacked her.
00:58:11.921 –> 00:58:13.341
CANDICE: Publicly, on LinkedIn.
00:58:13.341 –> 00:58:21.321
CANDICE: So we did an episode about that and about bullying in general, that falls in this space.
00:58:21.321 –> 00:58:26.721
CANDICE: But I want to talk about that ugly side of some of the thought leadership in the admin space.
00:58:28.201 –> 00:58:31.001
CANDICE: There’s misinformation, there’s ego, clearly.
00:58:33.141 –> 00:58:51.781
CANDICE: I’m all for everyone having their own views and ways of doing things, but I feel like, and I’ve said this before, the majority of thought leaders in this space are white, and older, and mainly women.
00:58:52.841 –> 00:58:56.881
CANDICE: There’s yourself and Al Hussein.
00:58:56.881 –> 00:59:06.121
CANDICE: I’ve not actually had contact with him direct, but there’s a couple of others that I can’t remember off the top of my head, so we’ve not had direct contact.
00:59:06.121 –> 00:59:12.381
CANDICE: But I would say the ones that have had direct contact, and that I see in the feed all the time, they’re all white women.
00:59:14.481 –> 00:59:16.701
CANDICE: I’d like to see a diversification of that.
00:59:16.701 –> 00:59:22.981
CANDICE: I’d like to see more younger people using their voice and not be ripped to shreds for doing so.
00:59:22.981 –> 00:59:31.781
CANDICE: I would like to see different opinions and remaining authentic and not using your political talk.
00:59:31.781 –> 00:59:32.761
CANDICE: Say what you think.
00:59:33.261 –> 00:59:34.521
CANDICE: We don’t all have to agree.
00:59:35.381 –> 00:59:36.701
CANDICE: I don’t think we should all agree.
00:59:36.921 –> 00:59:41.881
CANDICE: How boring would the world be if we were all in agreeance?
00:59:41.881 –> 00:59:44.481
CANDICE: I want there to be difference of opinions.
00:59:44.481 –> 00:59:50.821
CANDICE: I want there to be, but just with respect and kindness and that kind of thing.
00:59:50.821 –> 00:59:53.821
CANDICE: So what’s your kind of thoughts on this?
00:59:56.301 –> 00:59:58.641
JEREMY: Oh, man, where to begin?
00:59:58.641 –> 01:00:08.221
JEREMY: Yeah, I think that, you know, I can’t do anything about my privilege as a white man.
01:00:09.641 –> 01:00:14.341
JEREMY: I highlight as many people as I can from all different backgrounds.
01:00:16.301 –> 01:00:22.261
JEREMY: You know, I do not consider myself an expert in a lot of different things.
01:00:24.041 –> 01:00:33.581
JEREMY: And the things that I have personal experience with that has helped assistance of the world, those are the things I focus on.
01:00:33.581 –> 01:00:55.961
JEREMY: And what frustrates me is in the thought leadership space, there’s a lot of this like, well, you know, you’re doing things differently, or you’re not doing things the same way that I would do it, or I’m gonna basically get in an online commenting battle with you, or I’m gonna legitimately, like you mentioned, bully other people.
01:00:57.341 –> 01:01:34.141
JEREMY: You know, I’ve had people steal my work word for word, I’ve had people, you know, talk, you know, negatively about stuff that I’ve put out with other people in the space, I’ve had, you know, people, you know, get upset because I charge for my services, you know, like, at the same time, they’re the same people that publicly talk about how assistants should demand pay and demand fair pay and better compensation.
01:01:35.621 –> 01:01:49.261
JEREMY: So, yeah, I mean, I don’t know exactly what you want to focus on or what specific questions you have, but I think in general, my viewpoint has been to just highlight as many people that want to be highlighted.
01:01:49.261 –> 01:01:54.781
JEREMY: Every assistant has a story to share, even if you’re not an assistant thought leader or you don’t want to have your own business, whatever.
01:01:54.781 –> 01:02:03.161
JEREMY: Every assistant has a story to share, and that’s why I have the podcast is to try to allow assistants from all over a platform to share their story.
01:02:08.141 –> 01:02:21.381
JEREMY: I have too much going on in my life to get in online commenting battles with people, or to worry about what other quote unquote competitors are doing in the space.
01:02:21.381 –> 01:02:32.561
JEREMY: I think that it’s great that you both have your own thing going on, and you do it differently than I do, and you talk about different topics than I do, and I think that it’s great that other people are doing things.
01:02:33.021 –> 01:02:49.941
JEREMY: I agree, I think we need more diversity in the space, but I don’t necessarily have answers on how to do that other than, if you’re doing something and you want to share your story with the world, and it’s related to the Assistant World, then reach out and I’d love to have you on the podcast.
01:02:49.941 –> 01:02:59.401
CANDICE: Well, there’s a funny point to add to it because in my viral post, the amount of people who felt the need to make negative commentary who had nothing to do with the Assistant World.
01:02:59.821 –> 01:03:03.621
CANDICE: Particularly men, again, that were VPs.
01:03:03.621 –> 01:03:08.881
CANDICE: I screenshot all of them, but I deleted a lot of them because they were downright rude.
01:03:08.881 –> 01:03:11.181
CANDICE: But they were VP men.
01:03:11.181 –> 01:03:14.641
CANDICE: They had the title Vice President as they’re underneath.
01:03:14.641 –> 01:03:19.541
CANDICE: Mine is Admin Advocate and LGBTQIA plus Ally.
01:03:19.541 –> 01:03:21.721
CANDICE: That’s my title under my name.
01:03:21.721 –> 01:03:26.121
CANDICE: They had Vice President as theirs, but they’re saying title doesn’t matter.
01:03:26.221 –> 01:03:28.101
CANDICE: I was like, dude, not only that.
01:03:28.861 –> 01:03:35.281
JEREMY: To be fair, the Vice President doesn’t mean very much in a lot of organizations in America and a lot of corporate levels and titles.
01:03:35.281 –> 01:03:37.001
JEREMY: Everyone has the title Vice President.
01:03:37.001 –> 01:03:38.901
JEREMY: So anyway, that’s probably who that was.
01:03:39.921 –> 01:03:54.041
CANDICE: But yeah, they had nothing to do with Admin and they felt the need to jump in on this thread where all these people were giving their opinions from personal experience and then these brandos started to drop their nuggets of wisdom.
01:03:55.341 –> 01:03:59.461
JEREMY: Yeah, I don’t know, Jessica, what’s your philosophy on all this?
01:03:59.461 –> 01:04:01.141
JEREMY: What are your thoughts?
01:04:02.241 –> 01:04:07.621
JESSICA: I mean, I grew up chronically online and I am chronically online, so I’ve been in a few Internet tangos or two.
01:04:09.501 –> 01:04:11.121
JESSICA: Just mind your damn business, people.
01:04:11.761 –> 01:04:12.341
CANDICE: Here’s the thing.
01:04:12.341 –> 01:04:19.681
JESSICA: It’s like I treat my peers with the same respect that I treat experts, right?
01:04:19.681 –> 01:04:22.481
JESSICA: Like, I assume that you are an expert in what you’re speaking about.
01:04:23.081 –> 01:04:36.661
JESSICA: And unless somebody is like, especially on LinkedIn, of all places, unless you’re being completely left field, like if they’re completely just lying about things that are directly related to me or something, it’s just not my business.
01:04:36.661 –> 01:04:37.901
JESSICA: It’s just not my energy.
01:04:38.401 –> 01:04:42.061
JESSICA: I don’t have time to be fighting on LinkedIn.
01:04:42.061 –> 01:04:43.741
JESSICA: I’m busy fighting on threads, okay?
01:04:43.741 –> 01:04:46.901
JESSICA: I have more important things to worry about.
01:04:46.901 –> 01:05:00.061
JESSICA: So, yeah, I think that it’s really obvious who didn’t grow up online and who still thinks that they need to fight every single internet battle and correct every single person they feel is even remotely wrong.
01:05:00.061 –> 01:05:14.721
JESSICA: I think that it’s my place, like if I am observing somebody else’s posts, it’s like unless I have something that really adds to the conversation or like congratulates them or something, it’s like I’m not stepping in this because I don’t need to be LinkedIn’s main character.
01:05:16.301 –> 01:05:19.801
JESSICA: I don’t need to be a person that has a screenshot of them being sent amongst all of our peers.
01:05:20.441 –> 01:05:21.781
JESSICA: I’d just rather not have that for me.
01:05:21.781 –> 01:05:23.581
JESSICA: So, yeah, just be nice.
01:05:23.581 –> 01:05:24.601
JESSICA: It’s not hard.
01:05:24.601 –> 01:05:25.821
JEREMY: Yeah.
01:05:25.821 –> 01:05:27.481
JEREMY: Well, I think the way I…
01:05:27.481 –> 01:05:36.901
JEREMY: I think there’s an emotional lack of intelligence in all of this because you think about it and you don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives.
01:05:36.901 –> 01:05:38.261
JEREMY: You don’t know that they just got laid off.
01:05:38.261 –> 01:05:39.781
JEREMY: You don’t know that they’re…
01:05:41.841 –> 01:05:42.821
JEREMY: It’s a roller coaster.
01:05:42.821 –> 01:05:47.361
JEREMY: Everyone’s lives, like my last two weeks have been such an emotional roller coaster.
01:05:51.261 –> 01:05:52.441
JEREMY: My wife had surgery.
01:05:52.441 –> 01:05:54.361
JEREMY: There’s complications with that.
01:05:54.641 –> 01:05:56.061
JEREMY: We’re dealing with that.
01:05:56.061 –> 01:06:01.801
JEREMY: Then the next day, it’s like, oh, my son did really well in his sports thing and it was really exciting.
01:06:01.801 –> 01:06:02.761
JEREMY: We celebrated that.
01:06:02.821 –> 01:06:12.421
JEREMY: Then the next day, I find out a good friend that, one of my good friends that endorsed the book just collapsed while on family vacation and died.
01:06:13.321 –> 01:06:26.641
JEREMY: Then the next day, my family and I are all healthy and the weather is beautiful, and we go to the Royals game and we have a fun night, and it’s just this amazing experience that my 10 and 12-year-old are going to remember forever.
01:06:26.681 –> 01:06:37.461
JEREMY: Then the next day, I find out my college roommate and then groomsman in my wedding had a heart attack and died and left his three young kids.
01:06:38.541 –> 01:06:44.281
JEREMY: Then the next weekend, my son wins a soccer tournament, and then I’m going to the funeral.
01:06:45.981 –> 01:06:48.861
JEREMY: Life is a rollercoaster, and you don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives.
01:06:48.861 –> 01:06:55.361
JEREMY: You don’t know how good or bad or blah their day has been or their week has been.
01:06:55.361 –> 01:07:01.221
JEREMY: So try to have a little bit of emotional intelligence in the world.
01:07:01.221 –> 01:07:05.341
JEREMY: When you’re online, before you post, try to think, you know what?
01:07:05.381 –> 01:07:06.941
JEREMY: This person is a human.
01:07:08.741 –> 01:07:14.761
JEREMY: Even if we can check ourselves before we do that, I think that’s a big win.
01:07:14.761 –> 01:07:15.161
CANDICE: Okay.
01:07:15.161 –> 01:07:25.201
CANDICE: So I know we’re clocking up time here, so I want to do one last thing quick around the table is, what’s your predictions for what’s happening next in the admin space?
01:07:25.201 –> 01:07:30.101
CANDICE: Do you think that the assistant title will be around in the next 10 years?
01:07:30.101 –> 01:07:31.201
CANDICE: Do you think it’ll be something else?
01:07:31.201 –> 01:07:33.481
CANDICE: Do you think AI is going to wipe out our jobs?
01:07:33.961 –> 01:07:38.421
CANDICE: What’s your quick predictions for the admin community?
01:07:38.421 –> 01:07:40.461
CANDICE: Jessica, you go first.
01:07:40.581 –> 01:07:58.041
JESSICA: I do believe that we’re going to be seeing a rebrand as administrative consultants where the people that have been pushed out of the workforce that are learning to be independent business owners can start rebranding themselves and actually get the respect that they deserve because I get treated a lot differently when I transitioned to consulting.
01:07:58.041 –> 01:08:00.621
JESSICA: So I think we’re going to see more of that happening.
01:08:01.521 –> 01:08:03.021
CANDICE: Okay.
01:08:03.021 –> 01:08:04.561
CANDICE: Jeremy?
01:08:04.561 –> 01:08:07.101
JEREMY: Yeah, I think the title is going to stick.
01:08:07.101 –> 01:08:14.281
JEREMY: I think it’s going to be rebranded a little bit in a way.
01:08:14.281 –> 01:08:31.881
JEREMY: But I think as far as technology and innovation, I think it’s really a matter of the assistants or whatever you want to call them that who automate, who embrace automation are going to lead the way and they’re going to have jobs and they’re going to have opportunities and they’re going to have a future.
01:08:31.941 –> 01:08:35.441
JEREMY: The assistants who don’t are going to be automated.
01:08:35.441 –> 01:08:39.741
JEREMY: As my CEO always says, automate or be automated.
01:08:41.701 –> 01:08:43.341
CANDICE: Good quote.
01:08:43.341 –> 01:08:43.801
CANDICE: All right.
01:08:43.801 –> 01:08:47.541
CANDICE: Well, thank you so much, Jeremy, for joining us.
01:08:47.541 –> 01:08:49.821
CANDICE: Jessica, thanks for turning up too.
01:08:52.261 –> 01:08:58.761
CANDICE: Anything that we’ve talked about that pops into mind, we’ll put in the show notes.
01:08:58.761 –> 01:09:03.961
CANDICE: Lin’s work, the Global Steals Matrix, all those things that we’ve referenced, we’ll put in the show notes.
01:09:03.961 –> 01:09:07.041
CANDICE: If you have any questions, we’ll also have all of our contacts there.
01:09:07.041 –> 01:09:15.181
CANDICE: So if you want to connect, if you want to check out our communities, if you want to ask questions, we’re always open to feedback and ideas and everything.
01:09:15.181 –> 01:09:22.121
CANDICE: So the Future Focused Admin and The Leader Assistant, checking out for Episode 3.
01:09:22.121 –> 01:09:25.321
CANDICE: And we’ll see you guys soon.
01:09:25.321 –> 01:09:26.061
JEREMY: Thanks, Candice.
01:09:26.061 –> 01:09:27.081
JEREMY: Thanks, Jessica.
01:09:27.081 –> 01:09:27.561
JEREMY: Appreciate it.
01:09:38.092 –> 01:09:40.452
<v SPEAKER_2>Please review on Apple Podcasts.
01:09:46.885 –> 01:09:48.585
<v SPEAKER_2> goburrows.com
