In this spotlight episode of Diana Brandl’s Executive Office Insights, Anne Marie Otañez details her intentional career path, moving from early roles at Netscape, Disney, and Apple to her current strategic position.
Learn what it truly means to be a Chief of Staff—a trusted partner, liaison, confidant, and proxy—and the importance of clearly defining the role against that of an Executive Assistant. Anne Marie, who is also an author and the founder of the Chief of Staff Academy, shares how she supports senior leaders, manages a 100% remote work environment with intentional travel, and her goal to build a sustainable family business. Tune in to Episode #375 for insider knowledge and new perspectives on leadership and executive support.
Connect with Anne Marie Otañez
ABOUT ANNE MARIE
Anne Marie Otañez is an accomplished Chief of Staff and author of The Chief of Staff: An Insider’s Guide to Becoming a Strategic Partner in the Executive Suite. With over 20 years of leadership experience, including a tenure at Microsoft, Anne Marie has navigated the complexities of executive roles with resilience and grace. As a Black woman and daughter of immigrants, she brings a unique and empathetic perspective to leadership, emphasizing the importance of organizational alignment, team trust, and personal well-being. She is the Founder of Own Your Power with Anne Marie, an organization focused on Executive Coaching with an eye to the Chief of Staff domain as well as the creator of The Chief of Staff Academy.
ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL
Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.
Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.
Thanks for tuning in. Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/375.
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Being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I’ve been able to support some very senior level executive and understand some of their pain points and how can I step in and alleviate some of that pain, making sure that I fill a gap that they may not be able to fill. but also just be a really good, trusted partner. The relationship that a chief of staff has with their executive is very different than the relationship a manager has with an employee. I know the secrets, and I don’t necessarily want to know the secrets.
I know. They can be quite a burden, right?
I’ve got a wall right next to me, and I’ve got it posted there. and as I make progress, I write on that piece of paper. I’ve got paper all over my desk.
00:01:29
Wait a moment. Working for Microsoft, talking about paper, You want to tell me you’re still a paper pen girl? I’m part of the club.
00:01:38
I am. When I worked for Netscape, we were battling Microsoft at the time. There was a battle for browser wars. And at the time, Netscape had 74% market share, which is unheard of for a company to even have double digits market share, but to have it in such a large quantity. And I said, I’ll never work for Microsoft because at the end, Microsoft kneecaps Netscape, people change, companies change. And here I am today, I work for Microsoft.
00:02:11
Welcome to Executive Office Insights with your host, Diana Brandl, consultant and coach for executive support. I travel around the globe to bring you the most exciting voices in the industry in front of my microphone. Get inspired by insider knowledge, real success stories, and new perspectives on leadership and executive support.
00:02:35
I love when people are active on social media and when they stand for their clear opinions and when they root for others. And one of these incredible ladies is Anne Marie.
00:02:47
I followed her on LinkedIn. She speaks a lot about chief of staff.
00:02:52
And that’s why I wanted to hear a little bit more from her, from her career. She just wrote a book. So make sure you check in with our show notes, of course. And now it’s time to enjoy the episode. I’m very excited to welcome a guest that is actually in the U.S. right now. Hello, Anne Marie. How are you? I am well. Thank you for having me, Diana. How are you doing? I’m good. As I was telling you, I’m still on my winter break in the Middle East. So we could not be, you know, more far away, actually. But technology, you know, makes it possible. So let us know, where are you exactly based?
00:03:27
So you said I’m in the United States. I’m in Utah. So I’m in a city called Eagle Mountain, which is so far away from the city. And so I tease my husband because I don’t leave the house because when I leave the house, I got to do everything because I’m just far away from civilization. But we’re in this nice little city and the kids laugh in the streets, which is something I wanted to be able to hear. So I’m in Utah, USA. Wonderful. Have you always been in that state? Is it your native state or have you been moving around? So I was actually born in New York and I was raised in California. So I live in Utah. My brother moved out here and I wanted to be close to him and his family. I am a beach girl. I’m a sun girl. So in the winter, I hibernate. Yeah.
00:04:15
I stay in. My husband loves the snow. And we’ve been having really mild winters. So I have been enjoying the fact that there’s no snow. And poor guy. He just…
00:04:27
He’s just hoping for some snow. And I’m like, no, I can drive at least.
00:04:32
You know, everyone knows that I’m not a big fan of snow, so I’d rather have my palm trees around for Christmas than going for skiing or something. I know probably lots of our viewers and listeners have a different opinion, but I’m a palm tree girl.
00:04:48
Yes, you and I are in the same camp. Yes, and especially coming from Germany, you know, tough winters, so you really want to escape.
00:04:56
But it’s funny that you mentioned New York because I’m going to be there in April and April is the month for our profession. It’s Administrative Professionals Month. So we are honoring all the wonderful people out there who work in the executive support field and can’t wait to dive into your career. We’re going to tell a little bit about this today in our episode. So why don’t we start a little bit about your background? Who is Anne Marie?
00:05:21
Absolutely. So there’s a lot about my background. So from a professional space, I’ve been a career program and project manager and stepped into the business manager chief of staff area several years ago. But I’ve always loved just… taking something and completing it. And I just felt like I had a natural aptitude for that. And so I have been able to work for several tech companies. I’ve worked in the healthcare industry, entertainment, and my job was here, Anne Marie, we need you to take care of this. And sometimes I would have a team that reported into me. And a lot of times they were just matrix people who I had to use my influence to get them to get the work done. And so from a professional perspective, that’s who I am. From a personal perspective, I’m an older sister. I’m a daughter. My husband and I are in the middle of trying to adopt. Wonderful.
00:06:15
A mother at some point. And so I’ve got, you know, all of these things. I’m a dog owner, a cat lover. Wonderful.
00:06:23
So the house is full, I can say, huh? Very full. Very, very full. And we’re trying to add some kids, so we want it even fuller. Amazing. And that’s the perfect way starting a family. Was the dog first or the cat? The dog was first. So it’s funny. The dog came first. Then the husband came. Oh.
00:06:42
The husband loves cats.
00:06:44
And I’ve always been a dog person. So it was the dog, the husband, the cat.
00:06:50
Now we have dogs and cats.
00:06:52
I’m just picturing the situation in the bedroom, like who’s, you know, trying to find the best spot or are you someone that is very strict with, you know, cuddling with animals in the bedroom? I’m guilty. I have to say I’m guilty. So we have big dogs and I love to cuddle with my dogs and my husband will shoo him off the bed, but then the cat jumps on and cuddling with the cat. And I’m thinking something’s not right here. Yeah.
00:07:21
It’s so funny. I love to hear these stories. And of course, you know, wishing you all the best for the adoption process. I know it’s a long process. So wonderful to see that you are walking this journey. So good luck with that.
00:07:35
So was it a specific childhood dream you had back then in your mind? I mean, the traditional, I want to be a flight attendant. I want to be a nurse. I want to be a teacher. Was it something on your agenda or were you heading a total different direction back then in your mind?
00:07:50
So I think it’s interesting because I thought about this as a child. There’s several things I wanted to be. I wanted to be a singer and I dabbled just very little in it. I actually wanted to be president of the United States at one point because as a child, as a child, I felt politicians are just not very honest and I’m an honest person. So I would be a fresh face.
00:08:16
And the things that I wanted to change. There’s so many things that I wanted to be growing up, but I didn’t know. And I was very lucky that when I was taking some of the testing in high school, sometimes they’ll, and I mean, use the word pigeonhole specifically. Sometimes they’ll pigeonhole people and say, you have the skills to be an accountant or you have the skills to be this. When I did my testing, it said, you can be whatever you want to be. You have skills in a lot of different areas. which I didn’t realize how it just opened the door for me to just figure out what did I want to lean into. And me, I did a small stint as an entrepreneur, and it was just to raise money. And I would knock on doors and tell people, here are the list of jobs I can do. I’m trying to raise some money.
00:09:02
Let me know which one of these jobs would work out for you. And so as a child, I just thought I’m –
00:09:09
I don’t have to do anything. I can do whatever I want to do. And then I happen to step into this more program type of world and just embrace it. Wonderful. I love the fact that you mentioned, I wanted to become a president and I wanted to become a singer. So if I ask you right now, what’s on your Spotify playlist, what kind of music do you enjoy to listen to?
00:09:34
Oh, so my playlist will have Rihanna. Sure. The other day. So my niece actually assists me with my business. She’s my first employee. And so we have one together and we were listening to Britney Spears and she, and I said, everybody loves Britney Spears. It doesn’t matter. We all love her. We all are like, we love Britney. Yeah.
00:09:58
um so i will have things that are pop i i have taylor swift and the taylor swift is because of my niece he is a swifty and so that definitely influences what i listen to um i listen to music that just makes me feel good and puts a smile on my face and and so i’ll have R&B I’ll have hip-hop I’ll have country and there’s times where I just want to listen to music that’s uh like meditative and so I have things there’s an artist called Yuruma and music is beautiful and soothing and so I’ll listen to that music so it just depends on what my mood is yeah that’s the good choices we have on Spotify right
00:10:41
Wonderful. So after, you know, having the childhood dream in your head and then, of course, going through school and education. So how did it all start with your career? What was your first job? And why don’t you lead us through a little bit to the function you’re in right now?
00:10:56
Absolutely. So my first job was with a company. So I’m going to date myself. A company called Netscape.
00:11:04
And I worked for a wonderful woman who actually took me. I followed her to a couple of different career jobs where I worked at a startup and then definitely was in the tech space. But I started working at Netscape and loved the technology sector. And this was right when technology was just starting to grow some.
00:11:24
And I have to tell you a funny story. When I worked for Netscape, we were battling Microsoft at the time. Wow.
00:11:41
to even have double digits market share, but to have it in such a large quantity. And I said, I’ll never work for Microsoft because at the end, Microsoft need cabinet Netscape. Right.
00:11:56
people change, companies change. And here I am today, I work for Microsoft. I know, I was going to laugh. Right here with Microsoft. But I share that with people because I said, you would have never caught me. And I had read books about how the internet was going to be changing things. And I still am a Netscape girl. I still have some Netscape swag that I keep near and dear to my heart. But that was my first job, was working for Netscape. And then I ventured into the startup space. And that was amazing to understand that landscape and how hectic but rewarding it was. You learn so much working with startups, right? I’ve been hired to work with startups as well. I’ve been working with two startups. They were actually kind of grown up already, but it still smelled like the startup vibe. And I loved it. I really loved it.
00:12:50
there’s something exciting about that.
00:12:53
You know, fast learning curve. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it gives you an opportunity just to sample a lot of different things. I mean, I had my role that I was in charge, but I was able to do a little bit of everything because we all had to do everything because we were real scrappy. We were just trying to figure out how we were going to make sure that we were going to be relevant. And the startup that I actually worked for was around for a while. And, and again, we had to deal with Microsoft and, and,
00:13:20
And I’m telling you, at the time, me and Microsoft, we were not friends. But it’s been nice to see that company evolve and change over time. And let’s be honest, I mean, Netscape, such a big name back then, right?
00:13:36
It was huge. Well, again, it had 74% market share when it came to the browsers. Wow. So you could not go online without knowing who Netscape was. That is so true.
00:13:46
And what happened next? What was…
00:13:49
part of the journey then before, you know, uh,
00:13:52
you know, moving over to Apple and Microsoft. Absolutely. So I enjoyed working with the startup space. I went and I did a little stint in entertainment.
00:14:03
So I worked for Disney. Lovely. That was amazing. And I actually relocated so I could live in California so I could work for them. I worked as part of their online internet team. And I share with folks that back in the day, we’re all familiar with the movie Lilo and Stitch. Yes. So I was able to be part of when Lilo & Stitch was being thought of as a TV show.
00:14:28
I was able to see some of the stills. Back then, Kim Possible was a thought in somebody’s ear. And so I was able to be part of understanding when that was coming to fruition. So it was wonderful to work in the entertainment space and understand how they pull things together and… from one type of media to another type of media to make sure that they attracted the right audiences, but they maintained their audience. So I loved working in the entertainment space.
00:14:56
And then I moved and I worked for Apple. Were you headhunted or did you look out for a job over there? Was it something on your list that you said, hey, I want to work for the big A? Yeah.
00:15:08
So that’s a great question. I actually had a friend who worked for Apple. And I was just curious because Apple was up and coming. And he was having such a great time working for Apple. He says, you should just check it out and see what happens. And back then, being able to find jobs was a little bit easier. It wasn’t 500 people applying for a position.
00:15:32
It was more, you know, maybe 20, 100 people. And so although you were still working really hard in the interview process to show up, there were better odds that somebody could actually see you, where today it feels almost impossible for people to get seen when they’re looking for a position.
00:15:49
But I, for the position, I was the most qualified and was selected and loved it. Absolutely loved it. And this was when the online store was starting to also take a presence. And so our general manager was building a small team that has grown into a large team. And at the time, one of the initiatives I worked on was cross-border billing.
00:16:13
And for us, cross-border billing, if I wanted to send you something and you were in Germany, I would package it up, send it to the mailbox. And then it would go through its customs and then you could pick it up. But I had to mail it to you. The online community at the time did not have the capacity to do it from their own online store. And that’s what we were creating. And so we actually enabled individuals to go on Apple Online and say, I want to send this to Diana in Germany. And I could actually send it to you from my seat instead of having to go to the post office and do all of that work.
00:16:53
And then you would receive it in Germany. And it was interesting because when we launched the project, we were actually watching sales happen. And our back was actually successful. So we enabled the ability for people to do some cross-border billing from whatever country they were in and send something to either their friends or clients or whatever. And so it was a fantastic initiative. Nice.
00:17:17
And then, again, another move. And is it by coincidence that you ended up in the tech business area, that you were and you are working with the big, major companies out there? Or would you say, hey, I was ambitious. After Apple, there needed to come a big name, of course, again. Or was it a coincidence? Yeah. I’ve always been very intentional about who I work for. And the reason behind that is growing up, being a young Black girl, I always anticipated that it was going to be hard for me for a lot of whatever was going on in my life, just by the fact that I was a young Black woman. And so I wanted to make sure that my pedigree, the companies I worked for were recognized. So if I was in a situation where it was extremely challenging, at least I could espouse, look, I worked for these companies and they saw something in me.
00:18:13
I am very qualified for the position. And so that’s always been something that was very, very important to me is who was I working for? And the name of that company was something that could help propel me into something else. And so after I worked for Apple and I’d been in the tech space for a while, I decided I want to take a little bit of a break. And so I worked for a healthcare organization for about seven years. And I just wanted to see what was it like working for Apple. organization what were the differences and there were definite differences um the the um this look and feel was different the pace was definitely different oh yeah i can imagine do we even talk about the nine to five here or i know i know i know it was in the tech space you can move so so rapidly fast yeah and you could move anywhere almost and you were going so quickly and
00:19:09
And in the health space, they were very, very meticulous about how they were moving. And where I worked, we were very mindful of customer health lives. And now it’s funny, right now working in the tech space again, and people are like, oh, I’ve got to be on all the time. And my question is,
00:19:31
is somebody’s life at risk. Let’s really think about that because I actually worked for an organization where if I did something wrong, if I did something wrong, And I wasn’t coding or engineering. But if I made wrong decisions, somebody’s life was at risk. And so it really taught me to think differently about my workspace and how I was prioritizing my time and how I was prioritizing the work that I was doing. And so when I was in the health space, we were very slow, but because we wanted to make sure that the errors were minuscule. I worked on a project where we were making a change in our data center. Mm-hmm. And we were taking everything offline. We were trying to put in dual paths to make sure that we had redundancy in the right place. And we started our work at eight o’clock at night. Wow. Start the changes because we wanted to minimally impact our physicians and the patients. And so… happened again the risk level was fairly low but there was still risk where in the tech space like we make changes we really make changes all day long even though i was gonna say there’s always a b testing right always and so that was a great experience for me to work in a in a field where it caused me to reprioritize how i was thinking about work and what was important and i love the fact actually uh if you’re allowed to comment on this um that you did this on purpose
00:20:55
You did it on purpose. You wanted to discover a different industry, moving into a different role and, yeah, seeing a different kind of, you know, pace. So how how did it, you know, shift your mindset in general before, you know, coming back to the tech industry? I think it made me so it made me value time in a different way.
00:21:21
It made me appreciate the time that I had with people that I wasn’t working with because there was such this focus on lives.
00:21:32
Every day I went into work and I was making choices and I had to think about how was I impacting somebody’s life or people’s life. And it wasn’t ROI driven, although there’s an ROI component to the work that I was doing.
00:21:49
But the focus was much more different. And when I went into work and with this project that I told you about where we were making a major shift to our data center, when that was done,
00:22:02
there was a different sense of accomplishment with that project versus the ones I’d done in the past. Now, the ones I did in the past, they were amazing projects. Like the one that I talked about was the cross-border billing, enabling people to do something that they weren’t able to do. That is a fantastic thing to put in place for individuals. And I love being able to complete that project and working with the team.
00:22:23
But the data center, again, there was an impact to life that was overwhelming. And so it was just different and it made my appreciation for the things that I was doing. There was a different level of sensitivity that I felt. And I also want to add what you said before, when you’re in such a recruiting process, what are the most important factors you see here? You know, I’m interested in this position because the manager I get to work with, because the company I get to work with and the values behind and the principles behind and the ways of working behind. Or the product, let’s be honest as well. I remember when I was working for the C-suite at Sony, I was interested in the product. And so entertainment business, although I was working in the consumer product area. But yeah, of course, I wanted to see, oh, yeah, Xbox, right?
00:23:18
Gaming and everything else. So, and the newest laptops back then, the VAIO computers and everything. So I was interested in the product as well. So this was also part of my, you know, approach towards this position. Would you agree on that?
00:23:34
Yeah, I think when I first entered the working field, the working space, I was just excited. So I wanted to work for a big company. And I don’t think I realized how much I wanted to make sure that it resonated with me as a person and the things that are important to me.
00:23:54
Early on, I wanted to make a buck. I wanted to make a change. I wanted to help, and it was very exciting. The older that I got, the more, like you said, it was important to me, who was I working for? Could we have conversations where even though we may not agree on certain points, I felt
00:24:11
ethically, morally, that we were aligned. I felt like what my company was doing was something that I could be proud of and that they represented my values. That has become more and more important for me the more I’m getting more experience, learning more in the employment space.
00:24:28
And not to say that it wasn’t important for me when I was growing up, but I don’t think I thought about it as much as I do now. And so as I have conversations with people where they’re looking for jobs or somebody wants to come and work for me, there needs to be this synergy. And it sounds a little cliche, but it’s very true. If you are not in sync with how that organization or that person is moving forward, there’s not going to be a lasting satisfaction with the job. And it’s going to come while I’m making a buck because I got to pay a bill instead of I believe in this value, these values, I believe in this mission and it’s helping me. And I think working in the health space really helped color that for me because at the end of the day, if we made a mistake, somebody’s life was on the line and I did not want to hurt somebody’s life and I didn’t have to kill them. I just didn’t want to make sure that I wasn’t hurting them.
00:25:22
I love that. That’s a wonderful explanation. Yeah.
00:25:26
And, you know, what was the moment where you felt like knowing your own worth? When did this happen? You know, during your journey, working for all these major companies, being very tech savvy, you know, showing up as a strong woman, showing up as a woman with goals and clear targets. So when was that moment where you knew, hey, I’m worth it and I’m going to show it how much I’m worth it? And I’m not talking about only money, but your profile, right?
00:25:57
Yeah. I think that’s a great question. And I’m going to answer it in this way. I’m always discovering my self-worth.
00:26:07
So I mentioned that I have my own business and my niece is my first employee. I think it’s being crystallized because I have her with me. I’ve always understood that I had worth.
00:26:19
because I was very intentional about the job that I wanted to work for. And that’s refined with, you know, responsibility, being a manager, being a leader, working with certain types of individuals who are fairly senior in the organization. But that helped to be more crystallized, having her as an employee because she watches me. And one of the things I had shared with her was growing up, I felt like I had one plan and it was,
00:26:47
You go to school, you get a degree, you work at nine to five. We talked about the nine to five and you retire and then you kind of enjoy life. And so grateful for all the people in my life, my family, my, my teachers who help instill this work ethic in me, but that’s what I always realize. And then I decided I wanted to do my own thing.
00:27:12
And I realized that, I have different options and opportunities. I started to get people who sponsored me. And I remember having a conversation with one of my sponsors. And I said, I didn’t realize I had a lot of options. And, you know, I’m an old lady, not an old lady, but I love my age. I love that I’m going to have more grays. I don’t color them.
00:27:34
But I said, you know, I’m entering that time of my life where I can start to look at slowing things down. And he looked at me and he says, you have so many options. And it struck me, you know,
00:27:48
I do have options and having her recognize, and I tell her often, you have so many options. You can work a nine to five. You can do your own thing. You can take a break and you can travel the world. You have a lot that is your story. And I think, so your question, the reason I love it is because I think I’ve always been developing this. It’s always been something I’ve always realized that I was, I had value and worth and,
00:28:14
And what that looked like was defined in the moment that I was in. And so right now, my value and my worth is being defined by the people who I am around, the people that I’m able to influence and impact. And that young lady who comes and works with me twice a week and we get to strategize on my business and she comes up with ideas and she solves problems that I can’t even solve.
00:28:41
and is in touch with a generation that I’m striving to get in touch with. So I really love that question. Was she already part of your book project?
00:28:50
She was not. So my book project, so this is an interesting story because I never, never in a million years thought I would write a book.
00:29:00
Never say never, right? I know, I know. I’ve had to write papers. I’ve had to write statuses. I’ve had to write in my job. I’ve had to ghostwrite for my executives. But I never thought I would write a book. And I had a sponsor who challenged me because he says, you know, I should write a book about being a chief of staff. I’ve been doing it for a long time. I’ve got some ideas. And he said, so why don’t you just do it? Right.
00:29:25
And I thought, why don’t I just do it? Let’s see. The process was difficult.
00:29:30
But I finished my first book. And I’m grateful for the positive responses that I’ve received from that book. And I’m a bit of a trilogy nerd. And so I plan on writing two more books. And I already know. Wow. I’ve created the framework for the second one. And so probably this summer, I’ll start to really put some work behind that. Wow, that’s amazing.
00:29:54
Any little teaser you might want to share with us or is it too early? I can share a teaser.
00:30:02
This next book is about outcomes and impacts for chief of staff. Very good. And the teaser is I do it in three acts.
00:30:12
I love it.
00:30:13
You know, to the folks that are listening and watching us, make sure you check out the show notes because obviously we’re We have linked the wonderful book that came out last year, the first wonderful book from Anne Marie. And we just heard there’s going to be more. So I can only tell you, wishing you all the best of luck. And isn’t it wonderful to have these incredible sponsors and mentors and sounding boards around us that keeps pushing us, that believe in us much sometimes faster when it comes to projects like this one, faster than we believe in such a project. And it’s wonderful that you have that circle. Yeah. Yeah. I feel very lucky and I keep getting more.
00:30:51
The more my network grows, the more I find somebody who is in my camp and they’re trying to help me just, you know, move myself along and see what I might not see for myself and help me attain the things that I may not be so accessible to being able to attain. Amazing.
00:31:08
So obviously you wrote a book about chief of staff. So tell us about your role working at Microsoft. So let’s dive in. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it’s interesting, the chief of staff, this person. So as I entered the role of being a chief staff, I wasn’t sure exactly what was it. And like I said, my background is in program and project management.
00:31:32
And unbeknownst to me, I already had a lot of the skills that it took to be successful chief of staff, because really what you’re doing is you’re partnering with experts. as a chief of staff and executive and understanding what their vision, their strategy is, and then you help them implement it. That’s the simplest way of describing what a chief of staff does. Now, it is not a simple role at all. It is very, very complex because you are not only building relationships, you are cultivating and maintaining those relationships, sometimes at the request of your executive, understanding what are the things that need to happen so they have a good partnership and so that vision is executed against. And so being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I get to partner with these extremely smart individuals, this leadership body that I work with. Coincidentally, next week we’re having a leadership exercise with my current leadership team. And I partner with my HR person and we’re going through an exercise to talk about branding, to talk about change.
00:32:30
to talk about how do you coach through challenges topics that we’re all very very familiar with but they always need to refresh yeah you never get a point where you know everything you’ve always got to be constantly developing learning and and growing yourself and so the opportunity to develop with and provide a development opportunity where we’re all growing and learning um
00:32:56
is amazing. And so being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I’ve been able to support some very senior level executive and understand some of their pain points and how can I step in and alleviate some of that pain, making sure that I fill a gap that they may not be able to fill, but also just be a really good trusted partner. It’s amazing.
00:33:19
the, the relationship that a chief of staff has with their executive is very different than the relationship a manager has with an employee or connected. Um, I know the secrets and I don’t necessarily want to know the secrets. I know they can be quite a burden, right?
00:33:38
They are, they are, but I know the secrets and that person, they have a person they can talk to. Uh,
00:33:45
I had an executive and she would confide so much in me and, and it wasn’t girl talk. It was, we were talking about the business and there were things that we could not share with even her leadership body. And I was the only one that was privy to some of this information.
00:34:00
And we would whiteboard. And then if we needed to talk to HR about options or whatever was going on, that was the only other person that was in that circle. And so being a chief of staff in a tech space, again, you’re moving very, very fast. Things are happening so quickly. But you also have to be adept at understanding the landscape and being able to be in that landscape.
00:34:24
If you could give a different title to the chief of staff, what would be a title that you would enjoy? You mentioned the trusted partner before. Is there anything else that comes to your mind?
00:34:35
Oh, the chief of staff. So in terms of titles, they’re director of strategy, director of business management, director. Senior executive with the principal that they’re working on.
00:34:52
When I think about the types of roles that they fill, this is what you mentioned, like their liaison, their confidant, their proxy for that person. And those are some of the roles. The proxy, I love that one. Yeah.
00:35:11
That I would say is a chief of staff also. Yes.
00:35:15
And maybe we can also bring some clarity here because obviously a lot of, you know, highly strategic and senior level assistants are looking into, you know, upskilling into the role of a chief of staff. You have never been an EA in your career. So you came from a totally different direction. What are your thoughts on this new trend we see out there that, yeah, it’s for sure not a pathway for everyone, but anything you want to comment on this?
00:35:42
I have seen this so much.
00:35:46
When I’ve been asked this question, I always love to preface it with, anybody can do anything so long as they have access to resources, they have a network, and they have the opportunity to develop and train and grow into that. When I think about a lot of these very skilled executive assistants, And I think we need to look at what are the roles, what are the things being done in that vein? And if that person is operating in the capacity of a chief of staff, they should not be called an executive assistant. They should just be called the chief of staff. And make sure that the roles and the responsibilities align with the title.
00:36:26
Sometimes when I look online and I see the different job functions, there’s a muddying of the two. And I think we do a disservice to both of the roles because now we’ve confused them.
00:36:39
And we are confusing HR departments and managers as well, sadly to say. So there needs to be really a clear guidance here. And I know a lot of people talk about this topic. I can only tell you here from a German perspective. We have an official certification to become a chief of staff. This is in collaboration with a university. So you see the high level here. All the modules are approved by the university.
00:37:09
They are highly involved in the way the trainers are picked and the program is designed. So this is for sure something that is not only quite an investment to take, and it takes a little while, But I fully support how they do it. And because also to see the degree, you know, behind there that the university is involved and we are glad to have the certification in Germany as of this year, that also these people who are looking into this pathway think, is this really the right way for me or is it maybe not? a little bit into a different direction, right? Right. Right. No, I have an interesting story about that, and I really appreciate that you said that.
00:37:52
Being at Microsoft, a peer of mine and I recognized that we had a lot of people who kept asking us, how did you get into this space? How did you get into this space? And so we had created a course based on some of the things that we had known. And we had executive assistants, we had existing chief of staff, product managers, and we took them through a cohort with what we thought was relevant for them to understand what it took to be chief of staff.
00:38:20
I mentioned that I had my own business where I’ve created Chief of Staff Academy. I’m working with an agency that’s working to certify the materials that I’ve created. And the program is six months long. It has three modules. It goes through 15 lessons.
00:38:33
And we talk about core competencies. So agnostic of industry, there are things that every chief of staff needs to understand. An example would be workforce management. We all are going to deal with things that have to do with reduction of workforce, increase and scaling of workforce, changes, reorganizations.
00:38:51
How do you handle that? How do you ensure that you maintain a level of confidentiality? How do you make sure that you’ve created the right communication plan? And so I really appreciate that you brought that up because for me personally, I was like, there needs to be something that helps them understand what are some of the things that I just need to know if I’m
00:39:11
they’re an aspiring chief of staff, or I’m an existing chief of staff, and I really want to bulk up on my development. And that’s why I actually have the Chief of Staff Academy, because it takes you through some of the core competencies that I’ve been able to glean over years of experience and the partnerships that I’ve had.
00:39:29
So people can be successful if they step into this role, or if they’re in that role, and they want to just be better. I love that. And it sounds so well prepared, you know, these steps and the way you’re placing it. And this is exactly what the people want. And they want to hear from people that have been in this profession.
00:39:50
They know exactly what they’re talking about, although you would also agree that every chief of staff role is different because every executive is different. So the funny thing is what I found about your role as well is that you are 100% remote. So tell us a little bit how this happened and what kind of agreements and non-negotiables you have with your manager. to perform this role 100% remote.
00:40:14
Absolutely. Traditionally, I’ve always been a hybrid employee. Regardless of the organizations that I’ve worked for, I always had an aspect where I worked from home a few days a week and then I was in the office.
00:40:26
Obviously, post pandemic, that impacted a lot of businesses and they changed their approach and they opened up the opportunity for people to be remote.
00:40:36
But I’ve traditionally always been a remote employee. Especially with this role and working for organizations where we were spread across the globe, being able to interact with people who are not in the same space was normal. It was very, very typical. And so that wasn’t a hard stretch for me.
00:40:58
Talking to my managers, one of my negotiables that was on the table was I do want to be able to come into the office and have some very intentional meetups with people. So it wasn’t something where I, you know, I travel every month for a week or whatever. And for some folks that might work.
00:41:16
But I wanted to make sure that there was an opportunity for me to have some face time because a chief of staff, I love to say that we are the heart of the organization. We’re the folks that people feel comfortable talking to if they’re not comfortable talking to their executives for whatever reason. And so having that face time and being in a room with somebody was very important. And so I do have the opportunity to travel to our different offices and and spend time with our employees. Just last month, I spent a week in India. Oh, wow.
00:41:52
And fell in love with my peers in the India office. Absolutely adored them. Did you go to Mumbai or which part of India? I was in Hyderabad, Noida, and Bangalore. Nice. Wow. What a trip. And I can only imagine how amazing the food was, right? Oh, my gosh. The food was fantastic. But it was the people and it was experiencing a different culture in a different way, which was fascinating. And I felt very privileged to be able to experience it first person. Yeah.
00:42:32
Again, with my peers in the beautiful country of India. And so that’s one of the things that’s very important to me is not extensive travel, but some travel to be able to cultivate those relationships with individuals in real time. Yeah. Have you been to the Munich office for Microsoft? Yeah.
00:42:53
Not yet, not yet. Please put it on your list. I will. The executive assistant to the German CEO of Microsoft, which is a woman, you know, it’s always, Satya always has good choices in placing the right managing directors. Switzerland had a female leader for a long time, Germany. So my friend works for the Microsoft CEO there. So you need to come because it’s a beautiful office.
00:43:21
So get, get, get this trip booked. I will be around then too, because Microsoft is my customer actually. I would absolutely love it. Thank you for telling me that. Yeah. And so I think, I think that’s been the biggest thing for me is just helping folks understand the integration of some FaceTime is important. Not all the time, but some FaceTime is definitely important. Absolutely. I love that.
00:43:48
And yeah, I mean, Coming to the end of our wonderful interview, thank you so much for everything you’ve shared. I can not only wish you the best for the future projects you’ve been sharing with us, another book, the adoption, your business. So there’s a lot on your agenda for 2025. So how do you enter into a new year? Are you one of these people who creates a vision board, a mind map, manifestation? Do you have everything in your brain? You don’t need to write anything down? Or how do you enter in a new year? What other things are on the agenda for 2025?
00:44:26
So I do have a vision board. I created it a while ago. It hasn’t changed because I was and I continue to dream really, really big.
00:44:36
And so that stays in the forefront of my mind. I’m not a New Year’s resolution person, but I am a very goal-driven person. And I have a folder and I have my goals and I start to think about them. And my goals are actually right here. I’ve got a wall right next to me and I’ve got it posted there. And as I make progress, I write on that piece of paper. I’ve got paper all over my desk.
00:45:00
Wait, wait a moment. Working for Microsoft, talking about paper is… You want to tell me you’re still a paper pen girl? I’m part of the club.
00:45:09
I am. I’ve got papers. If I don’t have a notebook. I’m part of the club.
00:45:14
I understand you. Rooting for you.
00:45:18
It’s still so relevant. It’s always going to stay relevant. I know. We love OneNote, right? We love Microsoft To Do. We love the planner. But hey. you know, paper and pen is still allowed. Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s, it’s the, it’s the original and I love sticking with the original, but I do, I have my goals.
00:45:35
And like I had mentioned, one of my, my bigger goals is to start with this book. My, my second one, my other goal was to complete the certification for the chief of staff Academy. I’ve been in self launch mode. And so I’ve had to go through it to get some feedback, make some refinements and,
00:45:53
Enjoying that process as difficult as it is. And continue working with my niece as my employee. So I have four nieces.
00:46:05
The one who works for me is the second oldest. The third one, who’s going to be 14, asked me the other day, so can I come work for you? And so my goal moving into the future is to create a business that’s so sustainable that my whole family can come work for me. Yeah, start a family business. I love that. My husband works 100% of my company. So how about that, right? I love that.
00:46:31
I love that. I know. I mean, he had his career. He’s 10 years older. And so he was a VP and, you know, originally an engineer, but always working out there. And since we started our digital nomad life three years ago, it was just time for him to, yeah, leave the corporate world. And since he’s the biggest fan and supporter, he is my chief of staff. And my CFO in one role.
00:46:59
So I couldn’t be happier having him be part of my team. And it’s growing.
00:47:05
That’s awesome.
00:47:07
It’s a wonderful feeling that you work with people and you have them around you. And throughout the eight years that I’ve been running my business, I was just… always happy to have the right experts around me. The guy who’s, you know, preparing a podcast, who’s cutting all of this. I’m not doing this myself. I knew when I started a podcast five years ago, I needed to have the right expert. So shout out to Sebastian in Bali, who’s doing all of that. And a German, a fellow German who’s living in Bali. So he’s the one, you know, who’s been by my side from day one when we launched a podcast. And I love to have the right experts around. in my circle because I can support, I can support other, you know, entrepreneurs and their businesses. And that’s how it all runs, right? Support each other.
00:47:54
That’s wonderful. Well, I echo and agree with all of that.
00:48:00
I love that it’s my family that’s around me. I was in a conference last week and my husband was with me and we were talking to different potential clients and he is darling. He understands what I do and he’ll say, well, I don’t quite get it. He gets it. And so both of us are talking to clients and there’s this whole sense of pride where I’m watching him
00:48:25
just do his thing on my behalf. And it just, you know, it touched my heart. That’s so wonderful. And you know, what’s interesting when you talked about new year’s resolution, I know everyone is going differently into the new year. Some people have a word, some people have a motto.
00:48:43
Some people, you know, create their vision boards and do the manifestation. I love to see this, how it works for people. But I also believe more into a motto and,
00:48:53
And my motto is actually, you know, celebrating my enoughness. I’m a big fan of, you know, saluting myself, you know, being an entrepreneur for eight years, running a podcast for five years, being very active on LinkedIn, constantly supporting the industry. And yes, I’m proud of everything that I have become. So enoughness is really part of my 2025. And my coach keeps reminding me on this, you know, celebrate your successes and You know, slow down a bit and just enjoy the time. That’s why I’m on a two-month winter break. I’ve never done this before. But I learned to slow down, and it’s just incredible. I can only recommend it because, you know, once you become an entrepreneur, it’s all about speed and activity and presence.
00:49:43
And after eight years, I say, hey, let’s slow down. You’ve done a lot. You’ve achieved a lot, so celebrate yourself. clap yourself on the shoulder and even if you’re you know that’s me being a very busy person always having creative ideas just you know allowing yourself to relax you know and um because this on the other hand can be also quite productive sure sure awesome that’s amazing i love that i love that celebrate my yes so please keep us updated on the book plans and the business plans
00:50:17
And you just need to come back again, you know, tell us what happened. I would love it. This was a delight. I love talking to brilliant people. I love talking to brilliant women. This was an absolute delight. Thank you for having me on your show, for letting me talk a little bit about me, my business.
00:50:36
and the things that go on behind the business scene. I love talking about my family. I feel very lucky that I’m close to my family and a lot of them around. Not everybody has that privilege to be around their family. And so I feel like I’m a very lucky and blessed individual for that. So thank you. This was wonderful. My pleasure. And please say hello to all the dogs and cats and husbands and nieces.
00:51:05
I hope they get to hear this episode as well. So if not, please say hello to everyone.
00:51:11
And thank you so much for being here and coming over to share your story. What a privilege.
00:51:16
This was so much fun talking to Anne Marie. Hopefully we get to meet in person one day. I’m heading over to New York, but I won’t make it to her part of the country. So hopefully it’s going to work out at another time. But in the meantime, connect with her, get her book and get inspired.
00:51:35
That was Executive Office Insights, the podcast for everyone shaping the future of the modern office. I hope you found valuable insights and inspiration for your own journey.
00:51:45
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00:51:59
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00:52:22
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